Shaun Groves
The kingdom of God is like…
A diminutive mustard seed growing to become a gargantuan tree.
Buried treasure a man sells all for.
A net thrown in the sea to gather every kind of fish.
God’s people are like…
Slaves and servants of a benevolent king.
Children of a perfect Father.
A bride in white.
The presence of God is like…
A pillar of cloud shielding from the sun and leading across the wilderness.
Tongues of fire hovering above heads on Pentecost.
Wind.
Intimacy with God is like…
Tracy Smith says:
First off, I love your blog Shaun. Thank you!
Secondly, I am all for a similie that helps us better understand something that is often complex; something that is hard to wrap our minds around. Sometimes a similie is helpful just to understand what someone else is trying to communicate even it you don’t share in the same opinion. My children use them all the time and my 4 year old doesn’t even know what a similie is.
“Mommy, your eyes have lines under them like a tiger. Are you tired?”
My question is this: is there ever an inappropriateness or unhelpful way of using a similie when describing intimacy with Christ as believers? The final chapter of this book seems to use sexual imagery when seeking to explain intimacy with Christ and I’ve seen this confuse & stumble many of my single friends – and married friends for that matter. I personally find it troubling and unhelpful.
I typically would never comment on a book if I have not read it in it’s entirety myself first. This was on my reading list and then I saw portions of the last chapter written out and I was left a bit uneasy.
Please – since you read it, I would greatly appreciate your thoughts. 🙂
Ann Voskamp says:
Thank you, Tracy, for your honest, sensitive comment.
I have prayed that language could be reclaimed for the Kingdom — that in defining terms, that in using their *truest* meanings, and defining how I meant them, *apart from their current cultural connotations*, they could be reclaimed for the purest of all — about our spirit, that we might worship in Spirit and in Truth.
No where, anywhere, in the book is use of the word sexual. Sexual is physical — and I very clearly spoke only of the soul, of the spirit, on union and oneness of the heart. Which Christ Himself calls us to and the Apostle Paul speaks of:
John 17:21, “That they all may be one, as thou Father are in me, and I in thee, that they may be one in us.”
Eph. 1:6, “He hath made us accepted in the beloved;” and
Eph. 5:30, “For we are members of His body, of his flesh and of his bones.”
2 Corinthians 11:2 (ESV), “I betrothed you to one husband, to present you as a pure virgin to Christ.”
The text of the book, I humbly pray, reflects Christ call to *spiritual* oneness, spiritual union, that He alone might have all our affections.
I clarified that definition of intercourse in the book, as it’s true meaning: “a passing between. A connection, a communicating, an exchange, between tender Bridegroom and His bride.”
This being the intimate union and oneness that Jonathan Edwards speaks of:
“So again, we being united to a divine person, as his members can have a more intimate union and intercourse with God the Father.”
~ Jonathan Edwards: the Excellency of Christ
That Spurgeon speaks of:
Our marriage union with husband or wife cannot be more clear, more sure, more matter of fact, than our oneness with Christ and our enjoyment of that oneness.
Joy! joy! joy! He whom we love is ours!
~ Charles Spurgeon: Loved and Loving
I humbly believe that this is the simile that God Himself speaks of throughout Scripture:
Ezekiel 16:8-10, 32
“Yet you were naked and bare.
Then I passed by you and saw you, and behold, you were at the time for love;
so I spread My skirt over you and covered your nakedness I also swore to you and entered into a covenant with you so that you became Mine,”
declares the Lord GOD.
Then I bathed you with water, washed off your blood from you and anointed you with oil…
32″You adulteress wife, who takes strangers instead of her husband!“
and in Hosea:
Hosea 2:14-20 (ESV)
14″Therefore, behold, I will allure her,
and bring her into the wilderness,
and speak tenderly to her…
16″And in that day, declares the LORD, you will call me ‘My Husband,’ and no longer will you call me ‘My Baal.’…
19And I will betroth you to me forever. I will betroth you to me in righteousness and in justice, in steadfast love and in mercy.
20 I will betroth you to me in faithfulness. And you shall know the LORD
… I pray that this helps a bit to clarify, Tracy? I appreciate your kind sharing… Thank you for grace…
Leslie says:
I understand Tracy’s concern and SO appreciate your insight, Ann. I have to admit to being challenged, and, yes, a little uncomfortable in places while reading this book, because deep, true intimacy IS a little scary. So thankful every day for this book and the way it points me to God.
Abby says:
I appreciate how you expressed so well here, Ann, what I {already} knew to be your heart…really His heart. And it is a bold {and lonely} way to seek to redeem an image that almost instantaneously can become defiled.
I also appreciate Tracy’s openness to share what has held her back from reading. I hope and pray that the discussion about this imagery in particular might continue for the purpose of digging deeper into the redeeming of it.
Thanks Shaun for opening up the discussion to Ann’s book…trusting it will bring further depth to the broader understanding {outside of those of us who know her *well* through her blog}.
Shaun Groves says:
God taught me and inspired me with every page of this book. I didn’t stumble a bit because of it – I soared.
I am truly a more grateful, more contented person, more passionate about pursuing intimacy with God, more aware of God’s gifts scattered throughout my day. I cannot speak highly enough about this book.
As for its use of simile: It’s redemptive and not the least bit profane. Hosea…Song of Solomon…without the naughty details ; )
Douglas says:
Intimacy with God is like…
The total mutual self-giving of spouses. Supernatural, tender, fruitful, ordered and open to the creation of new life, for the unifying of persons in their entire beings.
That’s a start at least.
JessicaB says:
You want to know the truth? I’m scared to read Ann’s book because I think I’m going to cry gargantuan sobs through out the whole thing. And I’m just not up for that yet. 🙂
Tracy says:
you WILL sob ~ but not throughout the WHOLE thing 😉
Read it ~ you will be better for it, I promise. If not, I’ll buy your book from you.
Lisa says:
I did cry, but not through the whole thing. I rejoiced through the whole thing. and am growing from it.
Leslie says:
It IS scary…but so worth it, Jessica. Read it. It is heartbreakingly beautiful and God has used it to help me…see.
Kelli says:
This book sounds amazing! Thanks for this great overview.
Kris says:
so nice to see both Ann’s and Shaun’s response, thank you both for commenting. The book continues to challenge me, as God is revealing more and more of what he wants from me, in learning the discipline, the joy and the gift that comes with true Eucharisteo. I am thankful for this community of blievers too, it’s all a gift!
Jessica says:
It is amusing and sad how far we have come from what sex was created to be so that now even Christians cringe at the words: “make love to God.” Our brains instantly go to the bedroom.
We fight and bicker over what right an author has to use words like fullness and climax in the same chapter as gratitude, love and intimacy with God.
I think the real questions don’t need to be what actually happened between a woman, and God in Paris, or why she used those specific words to describe her experience, but why we freak out about it?
Our culture is so sexualized that we can’t even see the beauty in words like climax and fullness without going straight to the toilet bowl. It’s probably about time that we take back sex and purify what God intended as holy and beautiful. Instead of pretending like He can’t see that part of us…
Ann wrote a beautiful book that some will love or not. We have a responsibility to each other to question, and sharpen, but also treat with kindness. I’m glad she has a respected voice here and that Shaun has actually read the book!
She represents an amazing God. Agree or disagree with her words… I am grateful for her heart that seeks always His face.
Ann Voskamp says:
As one who hasn’t ever had a television or a radio in our home in the 16 years we’ve been married, and who has seen less than a handful of movies in the last two decades, I am perhaps more removed from culture… and saddened.
Yes… redemptive.
Ann Voskamp says:
(And I think of the Words of Scripture, and of Edwards and Spurgeon (quoted above), godly men with hearts after our Lord, men from another era and culture, and I give thanks for the right use and understanding of language, all for His glory…)
Humbly thankful for grace and that God so loved all the world that He came to the cross…
Ann
Lisa says:
I think you nailed it here. Thanks for sharing.
Courtney (WomenLivingWell) says:
Oh Ann – I love your book and I just love you!!! Your blog always causes me to worship and I”ve been handing your book out to friends! I just passed a new copy to a friend at church this past Sunday – I can’t wait for the joy that awaits her in the midst of those pages!
Keep walking with the King!
Courtney
Rhonda says:
I, too, am a changed person because of this book.
I’m living in some of the hard eucharisteo right now and not responding as I usually would – trying to change things and manipulate things of my own accord. I find myself thanking God and asking Him what He’s up to in my circumstance – and trusting – so much more. I find myself contented in the midst of my day because I know He is there in my moments, where I would usually get to the end of my day a flurry wondering how it all passed by so quickly, and often trying “to fix” things that I should never have even worried or cared about in the first place. And I find myself crying a lot more, not because of stress or pain, but because I sense His presence and I am moved that He should love me so.
Michelle says:
I, too, have heard ‘concerns’ with the last chapter and I can say that I totally “get” what Ann is trying to speak. I came from a very, shall we say, dark, background. If anyone has cause to pervert this, it is me. But I find it to be absolutely beautiful.
the entire book has changed me in ways I could never have imagined. I am becoming who I have craved to be for years and years! Yes, it is a work of Grace and God gets all the glory and it is not just one book, but a culmination of all His dealings with me. But, wow! how Ann’s words are bringing together so much right now, for me.
the last chapter was beautifully descriptive and I found myself enraptured and assured of His love in a deeper way. I believe MUCH of the brokenness in the world is broken hearts, hearts that were not loved the way they were supposed to be and the devil has distorted the way we receive the love of the Father and His Son. This book has gone a long way in healing my wounds!!
Thank you, Ann, you are a precious woman who obviously loves her God and realizes how much He loves her! May God bless you and keep you!!
Relentlessly Pursuing,
Michelle
Molly Piper says:
Thanks for loving your sister this way, Shaun.
amy in peru says:
such beautiful use of language…
“so I spread My skirt over you and covered your nakedness I also swore to you and entered into a covenant with you so that you became Mine”
God has written the Bible to be its own accuser and its best defense as far as using sexuality to illustrate relationship between us and Him. I guess I´d have a major problem too, if I weren´t sure that God had used that language, made us this way on purpose… what better way to explain to us the high truths than to use what we know, truths that we can touch… Bringing the hay down out of the loft to where the horses can get at it.
Thank you, Ann. You are brave. I am so thankful for your courage.
amy in peru
Ann Voskamp says:
Ah, Amy… maybe for us all, it’s always brave to be Biblical?
And when we are very weak, He is strong, and He always looks for those weak enough to use? His bravery alone?
The enemy always hissing that God doesn’t really love us Christ-saved ones enough to want deep fellowship with us, always trying to distort God’s own metaphor, to distract us with the world and from deep spiritual truths.
And I am grateful for those of faith in Christ who have spoken of the simile, God’s metaphor, like Jonathan Edwards: ““So again, we being united to a divine person, as his members can have a more intimate union and intercourse with God the Father.”
And Puritan theologian, John Owen: “if the heart be once much taken with the eminency of the Father’s love, it cannot choose but be overpowered, conquered, and endeared unto Him.”
and John Calvin, Protestant Reformer, “God very commonly takes on the character of a husband to us. Indeed, the union by which he binds us to himself when he receives us into the bosom of the church is like sacred wedlock… “Therefore that joining together of head and members, that indwelling of Christ in our hearts—in short that mystical union—are accorded by us the highest degree of importance.”
(Have we accorded to this soul intimacy whit Christ the “highest degree of importance”?)
And John Piper, in his sermon, ” Call Me “My HUSBAND” studying Hosea 2:20… “God comes to woo us tenderly to himself; he promises us fullest hope and safety… and offers us the most intimate and pleasure-filled relationship possible…. The fellowship and communion and profoundest union he will give to his prodigal wife when she comes home broken and empty.”
… I am just grateful that because of Christ, God takes us as His own, that as God has blessed us, we can bless God with our thanks for His unending grace.
And like Shaun and countless others, we need not stumble, but soar on the wings of His grace…
Theresa@HeavenlyGlimpses says:
Shaun, I was directed to this post from another blog and am so grateful to you for opening this discussion.
Ann, you have helped me understand spiritual intimacy with God in a very concrete way – in a way I could not otherwise wrap my head around.
Oh, to imagine what He will reveal when we spend our time in His Word rather than attention on media – or attending to both and trying to make sense of the Word through cultural terms.
You make so many great points and your depth is astounding. I am so very grateful.