After reading Dr. Albert Mohler’s recent denouncement of Yoga, I see no other way to avoid pagan influence on my life but to stop living.
Before deciding to take such drastic measures, I tried to make a few life changes.
First, I burned my wife’s Yoga DVDs. Yoga, I now know, has its roots in Buddhism and Hinduism and its practices were intended to connect us with spirits. Regardless of my wife’s intentions – getting fit and whatnot – the intentions of its ancient inventors still pose a serious threat to her spiritual health today. No more downward dogs and deep relaxing breaths.
Next, I cancelled my lunch plans for the day. I was supposed to grab some grub with friends at Taco Express, but then I remembered the tortilla was invented by the Mayans. The first tortillas were made of corn, the “foundation of life.” Mesoamericans believed the gods made human beings from corn and that by making and eating tortillas themselves they were remembering this divine creative act.
No more Tex-Mex for me.
It took me forever to come up with an alternative pagan-free lunch plan. It took so long that I had to just reschedule the whole thing for Thursday: Fruit and vegetables (no corn) this Thursday. Done. But then I discovered that Thursday was originally Thor’s Day – that’s right, a day intended to honor the god Thor.
After throwing out all our calendars and convincing the fam to refer to this day as “three” from now on, my wife asked me if I wanted to be Shaggy again for Halloween this year. Years of watching yoga DVDs had obviously blinded her to the pagan influence all around us!
“No more Halloween!” I said. Halloween, some people say, was started with quite non-Christian intentions. Easter and Christmas were built on some rather unsavory and quite shady foundations as well. No more chocolate bunnies or stockings hung with care in my house.
The number of poorly intended pagan-rooted stuff in our lives was growing so rapidly I needed to start a list so I wouldn’t lose track and accidentally do something…paganish. I grabbed a pencil and some paper but quickly repented. Papyrus was invented by the Egyptians for record keeping, “spiritual texts” and works of pagan art involving scantily clad people walking around with dog heads.
So I went to my laptop. But it had an apple on it! With a bite taken out! “Geez!” I said. And then I remembered that “geez” is half of “Jesus” and I’d just taken fifty percent of God’s name in vain. See what yoga leads to?
Now I’m on the internet. The internet! What a wretched man am I?? A technology created either by a liberal Democrat or guys intending to share porn. Just being on the internet I’m exposing myself to technology intended to help people expose themselves.
So I’ve chosen to end it all. To leave this world. There’s just no other way.
Every inch of earth is a slippery slope tilted toward compromise by pagan peoples and their ill-intended practices. Life in such a slanted world is frought with constant potential for godlessness.
Dr. Mohler‘s right: “Should any Christian willingly risk that?”
———————————————————————————————————————————————-
For a more theological (well-written) response to Dr. Mohler’s prohibition of yoga, read this.
Cathy says:
I would like to answer but that might be to close to philosophizing and you know what kind of “people” those guys were and where that kind of thinking leads…
Cary says:
Well, the early Christian fathers were rooted on the philosophy of Aristotle and Plato. So technically, Christianity is un-Christian. We should all just pack it up.
dubdynomite says:
Shaun, we are going to have to move. America was never mentioned in the Bible, so regardless of the good intentions of the Founding Fathers, we need to find a dwelling place more in line with the scriptures.
I hear there may be a cave in the Sinai desert. One owner, very clean.
Of course, we will need to build an ark to get there.
Amy Tandon says:
Maybe you could become Amish!
Kelly @ Love Well says:
But see, now I’m conflicted. Because my Texan friends told me that God created Tex-Mex as a gift to the world (much like Texas itself).
Is there no middle road? (Or is that called Taco Bell?)
Holly Smith says:
My friend Randall just wrote this: “He who walks in the middle of the road should expect to be hit from both sides.” (George Shultz)
Ray Jones says:
“Some of you would like it if I said we were going to find a healthy balance between unhealthy extremes. That’s not what we’re going to do. When we are referring to God, balance is a huge mistake. God is not just one thing we add to the mix called life. He wants an invitation to permeate everything and every part of us. In the same way, seeking a “healthy balance” of the Holy Spirit assumes that there are some who have too much Holy Spirit and others who have too little.” – Francis Chan “Forgotten God”
Amy @ My Friend Amy says:
Funny you mention yoga, as I just was commenting elsewhere on how my feelings on this had changed. I used to take an all truth is God’s truth approach and figured one could benefit from yoga without participating in the spiritual side…until a Hindu friend shared with me just how much that attitude feels like cultural appropriation. It certainly gave me pause.
But I get what you’re saying, here, I do! 🙂
Holly Smith says:
A-Ah-Ah-Ah-AWESOME! And I agree.
(And if this is posting twice, it is because WordPress says I am posting comments too fast…so now, maybe I should STOP COMMENTING? It’s madness, I tell ya!)
Heather EV says:
Living on this earth means we have to risk it. That’s what God intended. But we are to also rise above it and live differently than the rest of the world. Yoga is only spiritual if you make it spiritual, just as much as singing worship songs is spiritual only if you choose to make it spiritual.
That was the problem with the sacrifices in the time of Isaiah and the rest of the prophets. It was only actions, not anything spiritual. I do not think that God has a problem with yoga. I do think God has a problem with worshiping other gods.
Shaun Groves says:
Now that’s fascinating, Heather. Brilliant even.
Anna says:
“I don’t think God has a problem with yoga.”
I ask, Really?, with all the sincerity of my heart, because it saddens me. I typed something about Jesus and yoga and deleted it, because it seemed borderline blasphemous. Used discernment in my decision to delete it, some may say…
I get the humor of the (superbly written) post and I grinned, even laughed aloud, a few times while reading; however, I guess I’m still not “getting it.” Is discernment a Christian in a yoga class? Or a Christian not taking a yoga class? Are you saying Dr. Mohler is being too legalistic? Or he’s spot on regarding yoga?
Call me too sensitive, but my heart is breaking, just breaking, at the state of numbness of my heart and my fellow brothers’ and sisters’ hearts.
Please tell me how God not having a problem with yoga is in his holy nature. I ask this with a sincere heart, not judging, just disagreeing, is all.
Shaun Groves says:
Anna, I think one of the problems with a blanket public prohibition like the one Dr. Mohler made is the imprecision of language.
Dr. Mohler is a brilliant man, an excellent writer, but he didn’t use the most precise language available when critiquing “yoga.” He alluded to various types of the practice, which I appreciated – from mere stretching and relaxation to tantric sex-infused rituals – but he did not condemn some of those practices while asking us to use discernment about the others. He cast the net – intentionally or not – a bit wide in my opinion.
He appears to have publicly made the blanket statement that Christians should not practice “yoga” at all…regardless of what type they are practicing, their maturity level, attitude, the setting, the instructor, their motivation and dozens of other variables that weren’t addressed in his otherwise well-written post.
I took yoga in college as a “P.E.” At a Baptist school! They renamed it “relaxation and stress management.” It was not the yoga of Hinduism but no doubt borrowed a small number of poses and practices from yoga – practices which were not intrinsically Hindu. We stretched. That was about it.
I left class more fit, and no less Christian. I wish Dr. Mohler had addressed yoga of the kind I’ve engaged in a bit differently than other types.
Princess Leia says:
Saw this on another blog today:
“It is not what a man does that determines whether his work is sacred or secular, it is why he does it. The motive is everything.” A.W. Tozer
JessicaB says:
Very 1 Samuel 16:7! 🙂
The LORD does not look at the things man looks at. Man looks at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart.
David C. says:
I was with you on that, Heather, until the very last line, so I’m wondering if I misunderstood you. The whole of the Hebrew Bible is made up of God’s problem with the Hebrews (then Israelites) because they followed the non-gods of other nations instead of the true God of all things/people. If I understand your statement correctly, then most of the Bible (Gen-Rev) must be thrown out in order to accommodate such a view.
With that said, I glory in my temporary ignorance and have decided to post this anyway, as a lesson to us all. I actually “added” a “not” in your last sentence because of its being in the previous one. I read your statement three times before I even caught my error. I wonder if that’s a real-life example of how we, too, can give a reading of scripture (or things like yoga) a cursory glance and respond to those visceral reactions within us. A better way would be taking time to struggle with God and the text or understand the individual’s reasons for doing yoga before breathing out some black/white condemnation of them and what they are doing.
I know many committed Christians who do yoga and I have enjoyed doing Wii yoga poses myself on occasion, impressed (and challenged) by my balance (and lack thereof). For me, it’s about strengthening my core muscles and improving my balance. To my knowledge, my Wii instructor has not yet quoted Sanskrit to me, told me to harness my chi, or encouraged me to meet in the silence with the god of my abdominal muscles. To that end, my concern with yoga is not a wit connected to its spiritual roots, and never will be.
Now, I think it’s time to return to work and finish eating some of my left-over Halloween (gasp) candy.
alittlebitograce says:
i have to wonder if dr. mohler has ever practiced yoga. his description of yoga did not match up with what happens at my weekly class.
Ally C says:
HA! Hilarious, Shaun. Thank you. Now off to my downward dog…
JLI says:
I had to laugh at this. In short, it is just a darn funny commentary!
Katie says:
Give it all up. No more clothing because the Old Testament forbids the wearing of clothing that is made of more than one material. Sky clad. Oh, wait, that is a Jainist practice.
Katie
Judy says:
Hahahahahahahahaha!
OK…I LOVE this post! Thank you for pointing out the ridiculous. It was a fun way to start the morning! 🙂
I’m going to go enjoy my coffee now (which was first used in the middle of the fifteenth century, in the Sufi monasteries around Mokha in Yemen.)
😉
lisa says:
Clearly you’ve been reading my mind. You know mind reading is a no no too, right? 🙂
Seriously, you hit the nail on the head with this one. I’m so tired of seeing people condemn each other for EVERYTHING, implying that if you let your kids go to trunk or treat at church, or if you buy them Christmas presents, you’re a heathen.
Let’s be sure we’re spreading the GOOD news, not the oppressive, self righteous news…
Bethany says:
AAAAAAMEN, Lisa!
Brad says:
Hi Shaun,
In a followup post to this one, Dr. Mohler says something that your readers might find clarifying:
“I have heard from a myriad of Christians who insist that their practice of yoga involves absolutely no meditation, no spiritual direction, no inward concentration, and no thought element. Well, if so, you are simply not practicing yoga. You may be twisting yourselves into pretzels or grasshoppers, but if there is no meditation or direction of consciousness, you are not practicing yoga, you are simply performing a physical exercise. Don’t call it yoga.”
This is from:
http://www.albertmohler.com/2010/10/07/yahoo-yoga-and-yours-truly/
So it sounds like the physical activities many people perform that take their inspiration from yoga are not what Dr. Mohler is addressing.
What do you think?
Holly Smith says:
What about meditating on the Word? Set your heart on things above? What if, while I live or practice yoga ot whatever I do…what if I am meditating on Him?? I think our LIFE is a spiritual act of worship. No matter what we do–we do it for His Glory–He is as SCC so aptly put it, the LORD of the dance.
Shaun Groves says:
I sure wish he’d said that in his previous post. Good to know! Thanks for sharing, Brad!
I know Dr. Mohler to be a very bright man (to say the least). Surely he knew when he wrote the post in question that there are very innocuous practices in the U.S. going by the name “yoga” and that by condemning “yoga” in a public blanket statement he was condemning ALL practices bearing the name.
He seems to have lumped “family friendly” yoga at the Whitehouse in with the sexual ritual stuff. He threw his stone at a big target. Glad he’s decided to narrow it down a bit now.
Thanks again, Brad.
Amy @ My Friend Amy says:
I can go with this and find it more respectful of the people who do practice yoga as a spiritual form.
Tim Wheeler says:
Quote: “But these positions are teaching postures with a spiritual purpose.”
Yikes. I don’t want to be part of something with a spiritual purpose!
Great blog, Shawn.
Michelle says:
No Tex-Mex? What about Pappasito’s?? 😉
Holly says:
Pappasitos is a religious experience.. no doubt.. moving back toTexas just for that!
Chad says:
You need to have Jon Acuff cross post this on SCL–it’s that funny! Btw, that Dr. Mohler is want to make these windy toothsome pronouncements, isn’t he?
Ronne says:
I’ve determined to live life as a renegade and a misfit. Those Pharisee outfits were really binding.
Wanna join me?
Texas Preacher Woman says:
I’m there!
Tara says:
At birthday parties people used to be beheaded, that is why you should not be celebrating birthdays, you never know when one of your kids could lose their head. Everything is rooted in paganism. Time to close up shop.
Funny post. Thanks.
Kris says:
ICK!
Karina says:
I have often thought that if you don’t want to support something that’s not morally sound, scripturally based you would have to shun everything, every product made, every thing, and go live as a hermit somewhere and grow your own food, weave your own clothes, and ignore the world. Yeah, I’m talented in a lot of areas but I’d soon die of starvation if I had to actually grow plants in order to eat.
Now I know. 😉
Angie says:
I am crying from laughing and my kids are looking at me funny. Thanks for summing it up perfectly! ROFL.
ann says:
my perspective: My husband is from India and grew up in a Hindu neighborhood. When I told him I was considering taking yoga at our local fitness facility, he was shocked. Strong connotations for him. I went anyway (with his okay) and discovered that the postures themselves are very physically challenging. My issue with yoga was the teachers: I was being encouraged into meditation. I’m all for meditation. I know I need more meditation in my life. What I learned, though, is that I want to be careful of who I allow to lead me in meditation. I had a hard time separating myself from the music that was being played in the classes (with names of Hindu gods repeated over and over). For now, I thin I’ll stick with Pilates.
And as for this hilarious post about the pagan influences in society (and I do mean that–it was hilarious), my visit to Christian homes in India opened my eyes in that respect. Many openly Christian families engaged in Hindu traditions–drawing black spots on the babies’ faces (originally to ward off evil spirits) for “fashion” and tying the red string around the babies’ waists for the same reason, also swastikas used for decoration in the homes, chalk drawings on the doorstep (also originally intended to ward off evil spirits but used by Christians as fashionable decorations). I’m also pretty shocked to see the same types of structures used in Thailand as Spirit Houses in backyards– to house evil spirits comfortably– sold in HomeGoods. I’m just sayin’.
Call me stuffy or conservative or out of touch or whatever, but I think the guy makes a valid point. I’m not even afraid to say that I’ve heard the same thing on the 700 club. Maybe I’m just geriatric at heart.
Kirsten Lamb says:
I agree with you, Ann.
I used to do yoga, until one class that had a Buddha statue at the front, which we all faced and bowed to for an hour. If I have enough trouble struggling with idols in my life, I’m not going to add in the mix telling a Buddha “namaste,” especially without knowing the meaning.
While I appreciate blog posts like this that bring these issues to light — almost as much as I appreciate Tex-Mex — I’ve found that Christians who have spiritual objections to yoga are hatefully ridiculed and disrespected. From Christians and non-believers alike. (See the comments on this article: http://www.9news.com/rss/article.aspx?storyid=158490)
Why is this such an incendiary topic?
Jody says:
Kirsten,
I think it’s incendiary for two reasons. From the perspective of popular secular culture articles like Dr. Mohler’s are the internet equivalent of sandwich board signs: something for people to point at and make fun of because the points of reference are so far outside of their experience that ridicule becomes the only way of dealing with it.
For other Christians, ridicule becomes a response to yet one more example of an area where a self-appointed guardian of the faith has called into question the discernment (and even basic faith commitments) of other Christians because, of course, the only biblical position is to agree with them!
These are caricatures, and maybe hyperbolic in a lot of cases, but I think they’re illustrative.
Personally, I find the perspective animating Mohler’s piece to be one of the reasons so many people *do* turn to eastern religions when they search for spirituality: the paranoia with which anything that isn’t deep-fried Southern Baptist (speaking as someone who grew up in the SBC), or whatever, is looked upon, and the cultural captivity that engenders leads not only to a rejection of non-Christian influences, but a rejection of our own Christian heritage. I would like to see Mohler respond to some of the great Christian mystical works, such as the Cloud of Unknowing for example.
Shaun Groves says:
This is why I believe discernment may be superior to blanket public condemnations when it comes to specific ethical issues on which the bible is silent.
For your husband, knowing what he knows as an Indian, being unable to separate a stretch or pose from its parent religion is completely understandable. He’s right in abstaining from the practice because it truly would cause him to “stumble.”
But for me, as a college student in need of an elective credit, it was no sin for me to take yoga (renamed “stress management and relaxation”). We stretched. I relaxed. I often fell asleep. And I left class limber, not connected to a dark spiritual force.
You’re not stuffy! Nonsense. You’re exercising discernment in your context, working out with fear and trembling what it means to follow Jesus where you are in areas of life on which the bible is silent.
To be clear, Dr. Mohler, who likely knows the bible much better than any of us, did not quote it once. The bible has much to say about fleeing evil in general but is silent on Yoga. I wish he’d instead warned his audience regarding certain types of yoga and certain ill motivations for taking it, and encouraged them to exercise discernment. Yoga, sometimes, for some people, in some places, is putting a soul at risk. Why not a dialogue about when those instances are? I would have loved that!
Pearls says:
I think this is where if you can eat meat, then eat meat…. But if it bothers you, then dont…..
If you can stretch and focus your thoughts on getting through the next 10 minutes at least or at most praying, then great…. If it bothers you, then you should be walking on a treadmill.
Great post!
EMBG says:
Exactly right. That should be our attitude. I respect Dr. Mohler’s intellect but Christian leaders should be equipping the saints to exercise wisdom and discernment in their own contexts rather than blindly following charismatic authority figures who sometimes quote the Bible skillfully.
ann says:
Thanks for your reply, Shaun.
thomas says:
This just confirms that I am going to Hell. For some reason I like Thursdays and I like corn. Even though I never done yoga, I did go to an acupuncturist for over a year. Oh my. I had needle shoved into me at supposed pressure points to relieve pain. Yup. I am a lost cause. I am going to Hell.
Line of Cars says:
Don’t worry, this is just God’s way of confirming my decision NOT to go to Southern Seminary.
Now, if we could only come up with a better name than “Sunday”, because you know the Roman sun god and all that…
Plus, it really confuses people around me who start telling me that Sunday is the Sabbath day and then start trying to make me follow all these rules from the Old Testament. Which is funny, because I thought I was one of them “Gentiles” and I read Acts 15:28-29 and really thought I was off the hook.
George Muller might have some advice on meditating, or on kneeling for extended periods of time. But then, he only had some 50,000 prayers answered that he journaled about and could count. So, not really a credible source…
Line of Cars says:
I guess what I was really getting at is this: there’s 17 million Southern Baptists, and they can only afford to send out 5000 to be overseas missionaries? Yeah, lets attack yoga. That’s the problem. Because the last time I looked “total commitment” meant sending out 0.02% of your people to do the work. Isn’t Southern the “smart” seminary? Why attack yoga? Why not obesity? Or football? What’s the numbers on those in the SBC?
Ok. Now, I’m done.
Janet Oberholtzer says:
The Southern Baptist attack football … that is funny 🙂 because from what I know of many of them, football ranks right up there next to Jesus.
JessicaB says:
Ranks right up there, Janet? You’re so sweet.
Let’s be honest, from what I know of many of them, the ole pigskin is elevated far far far above God’s son. 🙂
Princess Leia says:
This is off-topic, but I just need to ask for informational purposes, if nothing else:
Do you know the percentages from other denominations? I’m not saying that we SBs could do more because we always can, but other than Christian & Missionary Alliance folks, do _any_ other mainline denominations send out missionaries? Especially fully-funded missionaries? There are a lot of unaffiliated “faith-based” sending organizations, but do Methodists and Presbyterians and Episcopalians even _have_ “denominational mission sending organizations?” I honestly don’t know, but having been on the field myself might have heard about them if they existed (like I heard about CMA and Frontiers and Pioneers and Navs and any number of others – many of whom send out SBs who were rejected by the IMB for various reasons, good and bad).
No, 0.02% isn’t great, but a) not all Christian “work” needs to be done in a foreign country, b) not all SBs live in the US, c) not all SB missionaries are sent by the IMB, and d) maybe grading on a curve, we’re not doing so bad after all.
Off now to see if other denoms have sending organizations of their own….
Shaun Groves says:
I completely disagree with your logic, Line of Cars. And I think you’re crossing the line between critiquing an idea and critiquing a man (and an entire denomination). Not cool.
A Southern Baptist leader lacks credibility because his denomination isn’t sending as missionaries out as you’d like? Foul. Seems like more broad brush condemnation over matters on which the bible is silent. Maybe that’s not what you intended, but for whatever reason that’s how I understand it. Care to clarify?
JessicaB says:
Princess –
I admit, I don’t know the answer to your question. But, interestingly, I was recently at a conference where the current IMB vice president made these same disappointed claims about the number of people the IMB are able (or unable?) to send out. 🙂
http://www.go2southasia.org/2010/10/gordon-fort-challenges-partners-at-the-south-asia-summit/
Princess Leia says:
After a very quick search, the Methodists started sending out missionaries in 1984 and currently have about 200 on the field, some version of Presby’s started in 1985 and I didn’t see how many they had, but they seemed to have a broader focus of home and foreign missions and pastoral support and other things, so a straight numerical comparison would be apples to oranges.
JessicaB – I think EVERYONE would (or at least imo _should_) agree with that statement. It kills me that “missions” is the first thing to go with budget cuts at local churches (my own included).
JessicaB says:
So maybe the point was…if American Southern Baptists as a whole refocused their lives to the point they they were living and giving sacrificially in all areas, body, mind, spirit, and pocket book…we would be too busy communing with God and sharing His good news to be worrying about people who stretch funny. Lol!
Line of Cars says:
Shaun, I knew when I typed what I said that it was pretty off-topic. It’s just where my heart is and it came out.
I guess what I’m getting at, and why, is this: I found out about Mohler’s yoga thing on the Yahoo! homepage headlines. It embarrassed me because I thought it was stupid, and because it gives the appearance that Christians don’t have anything better to do than ban or boycott things that don’t really matter, like Pepsi and yoga, instead of trying to do something about poverty, or literacy, or pollution, or ending a few wars. Not to mention that whole Great Commission thing.
Many parts of our church tradition have their roots in either paganism or secular society. I’m talking about the stuff we actually do in the actual church corporate worship. I’m not getting to read about church reform from Mohler on the Yahoo homepage though. He’s going after yoga instead.
Like you mentioned, most Western Christians will probably put up a Christmas tree this year, but you don’t see Mohler calling them out on that.
My heart, other than reaching the nations with the gospel, in following Christ’s Great Commission, is to make disciples wherever I am (the other part of the Great Commission). I see so many people living such shallow, materialistic lives and claiming the name of the Lord at the same time. They are horrible witnesses to my atheist friends about their God whom they claim to surrender all to.
I just don’t think yoga is our biggest problem. You know, I don’t think that’s the hill to die on. It may not even be a problem at all. And, if it is, then we have to do what you said and go after karate, ethnic food, calendars, holiday traditions, sitting in chairs, and anything else that didn’t come from some arbitrary “right” culture that presumably was the one that God made, which wouldn’t be Judaism because there’s a lot of prophets calling them out too. So we’re stuck.
That and, I have met too many armchair theologians out of Southern lately who lean real hard in a doctrinal direction that I don’t appreciate. So they’re already on my bad list. That part was my bad, I guess. To jump on a chance to bash Southern.
But now I have to hear about how I’m not allowed to do yoga from all my atheist friends who can probably quote several Bible verses that talk about meditation and discipline. I’d just like Christians to act like they have something better they ought to be doing. Sure, I can’t imagine trying to explain yoga to Jesus, but I can’t imagine trying to explain wearing a tie to him either. I just think Mohler took a stupid issue to take a stand on–if he’s even right–with so many bigger issues out there.
JessicaB says:
Footnotes win!
😀
Barbara says:
Hey… Just to chime in, I’m an Episcopalian, and we are definitely into missions! http://www.episcopalchurch.org/109460_ENG_HTM.htm
More to the point, denominational competition seems really counterproductive and not really all that nice, IMO. The best missions, foreign or domestic, happen when we reach out and work together, not competing!
Jody says:
Princess Leia,
One of the official names of the Episcopal Church (actually the first official name) is the Domestic and Foreign Missionary Society, and while we have failed miserably at the domestic part of that mission since at least the 1950’s (with a few shining examples to the contrary), the foreign mission field has been another story, with many of the now self-supporting provinces of the Anglican Communion getting their beginning with missionaries from the US.
Frankly though, with south to south missions picking up, as well as healthy indigenous churches taking root around the globe, the shape of the missionary efforts engaged in by American Christians has rightly changed into more of a focus on development and aid.
Princess Leia says:
Definitely not intending to down other denominations (which was why I pointed out that it was my own ignorance that was speaking, not a lack of those organizations), just defending my own. Glad to know that they’re out there! And thanks for the link and history!
Tj says:
Interesting food for thought and funny too. I practice yoga moves and meditate on the scripture while I do it; on my own, not in a class. They are excellent strenght and flexibility excercises. I do understand the idea that the true practice of Yoga is eastern spirituality and perhaps is does make some sense for Christians to not appear to be partaking in that. I don’t think Yoga has quite reached the place in our society where it is totally not connected in thought to eastern religion. Like when I think of coffee, I don’t think of sufi monastaries, nobody has for a very long time! Honestly, I struggle a bit over where yoga fits in for a Christian, but the more it is practiced in the West as a physical excercise the more it will not be seen as an eastern practice to reach transcendence. And I think that is where the danger lies, not in yoga itself but in how it could be a stumbling block for eastern non believers. Maybe I am wrong.
JessicaB says:
I’m with TJ on this one.
I think as a whole, Christians don’t meditate -enough-. On God, that is. Or “in the spirit”. I’ve been thinking a lot about how much the western church neglects “the spirit” in all areas of our life regarding, meditating, or listening, or being led. I was reading Galatians 5 just yesterday and trying to understand the spirit led life. The biblically grounded, new testament, legitimate kind of way.
I mean, Peter went on a rooftop to pray and fell into a trance! 🙂 And God spoke to him.
I’ve also dabbled in yoga (pilates?) poses in my own home, without any guide, even a DVD. And I love it. It really makes me feel closer to God. Like a better spiritual listener.
Lana says:
Oh NO! We have a Yoga class at our church’s recreation facility! This is NOT good 😉
Maybe they should change it to Zumba… Oh wait….maybe not…I guess we should just march in place and stand around and look at each other.
Sarah says:
I’m glad your spiritual gift is sarcasm. Sometimes sarcasm brings points home in a way that nothing else can!
Michael Patterson says:
The pastor of Mars Hill Church in Seattle recently denounced yoga in an article published in the Seattle Times. This is what he said:
“Should Christians stay away from yoga because of its demonic roots? Totally. Yoga is demonic,” Driscoll said. “If you just sign up for a little yoga class, you’re signing up for a little demon class.”
It would be awesome if we lived our lives in such a way that people knew us for what we are FOR, rather than what we are against. They should know us for our desire for justice, our love for our brothers/sisters, and our compassion for the poor.
Hilarious post!
Liz says:
I like your response, Michael. If we continue to focus so much on what we shouldn’t do, we lose sight of Jesus, His love for us and for people, and we cling tightly to a list of rules. Oh, I wish people would see those who follow Jesus as lovers of others, justice and compassion.
EMBG says:
Why, why, why? Poor Mark Driscoll… Why can’t we be for the GOSPEL and let the outflow of that be justice and mercy and humility rather than self-righteousness.
Kris says:
Was Driscoll being sarcastic or literal? Do you have some kind of link?
Angie says:
Hmm, interesting.
I’d probably ere on the side of Dr. Mohler, just because I respect him.
However, I don’t have a problem with yoga so much and my kids will be trick or treating on Oct. 31.
I find this post interesting from a guy who looks down his nose at those of us who’s kids celebrate Christmas with Santa that you can’t see that we all different calls as to what it means to live lives that are different from the ‘world’.
Shaun Groves says:
Angie, I’ve never ever publicly pronounced a prohibition on Santa. (I’ve only made that mistake with iPhones…yikes, do I regret that!)
Here are the posts I’ve written involving Santa and Christmas.
My problem with Mohler’s logic isn’t that he’s against something. It’s primarily WHY he’s against yoga and how broadly “yoga” was defined.
Replacing discernment with law when it comes to issues on which the bible is silent is not so biblical as I understand 1 Corinthians 8.
That’s the issue I was taking a swing at. Not at Dr.Mohler or anyone or anything else. Maybe I missed. For that I do apologize. How could I have done a better job?
Angie Wilkinson says:
I’ve been reading along time. I get your ‘spiritual gift’. Just thought perhaps it was a bit misplaced this time.
But, still appreciate who you are and what you stand for.
And I remember the iphone debacle. It wasn’t pretty.
EMBG says:
I’m a newlywed and we are discussing the Santa tradition in our house. My husband grew up with it and loves it. I grew up in a house where we never celebrated Christmas at all (“because it’s a pagan holiday”). Now, I want Christmas with Christ and a manger scene but not Santa and a tree (or maybe a minimal tree). He would like the whole deal.
But how we work this out will be a matter of discernment. It’s not law. Not absolute right and wrong. I don’t look down on Santa-loving households or Yoga practitioners, though I do neither. God hasn’t spoken and so I can’t speak authoritatively to those things.
Shaun is right on here!
Kris says:
I’ve always tried to teach my children that Santa is not real, but that it is fun to pretend. We do the tradition, but I’ve never let them think Santa really exists. My family hates that, and they have tried to convince my children that I was lying to them.
Mark Spiegal says:
Exactly, Kris. It is fun to pretend there’s a Santa. Just like it’s fun to pretend there’s a God. And that this God has only one name. And that if you call this God by any other name, or – heaven forbid! – cast a physical symbol for this deity other than an implement of death, watch out!
keith says:
Is this a guest post from Brant Hansen?
Michelle ~ Blogging from the Boonies says:
Ah, well, it just goes to show we can’t always agree 100% of the time. Generally I find myself nodding emphatically at your posts. This time, I am going to have to sit myself on the “anti-yoga, anti-Santa, anti-Halloween” couch.
God leads us with conviction on certain things, and I feel that maybe it is just to test our obedience. I suppose we are all convicted about different things. At any rate, I can give my neck muscles a rest today and will resume my head nodding next time you post.
Michelle ~ Blogging from the Boonies says:
Coming back to add, my own convictions are just that. Mine, for me and my household. Ultimately, we should listen to the whispers that God places on our heart. When we are quiet, I believe He will guide us.
Mark Spiegal says:
Yes, the quiet place where God can whisper divine inspiration. Oh wait, that’s called yogic meditation. Oops.
Jeremy Keegan says:
Are there people who call themselves Christians, who are out there practicing yoga more than they are reading their Bible? Yes. Are these “Christians” mixing in Eastern religious ideas with their way of life? Yes. To this extent, I agree that yoga involves things that can be detrimental to people pursuing Christian spirituality.
However, are there lots of solid, Jesus-following, Christians out there who do yoga to stay healthy (honoring the temple of God that is their body) and don’t associate with the religious parts of it at all? Yes. Is there a real risk that if you tell people you went to yoga class they will move away from Christ based on that statement alone? No.
How did Jesus come to save the taxpayer? He went and hung out with him, but he did not become a taxpayer. How did Jesus save the prostitute? He talked with her, however he did not become one. Is it possible for people to attend yoga class, or practice the physical parts of it at home without converting to some sort of eastern religion, or hybrid of that with Christianity? Absolutely.
Here’s a testimony to this fact. I have been trying to get in shape for the last year. One of my weaknesses is flexibility, but it’s extremely important for active sports (which I have been playing) and for weight training, etc. I would spend one hour a week doing a yoga routine so that I could become more flexible. However, during that same time, I’ve also read through the entire Bible twice and taught a lesson from every Old Testament book to high schoolers on a weekly basis. I feel like my relationship with God has become much stronger, including my knowledge of Him and my love for Him, and I am living my life for Him more than myself much more than I was a year ago.
Yoga had absolutely nothing to do with my spiritual walk. In fact, while doing it once a week, I actually grew closer to Jesus.
Please folks, let’s not throw the baby out with the bathwater all the time. Not only is it an overreaction, but most of the things we want to “throw out” are things that people who don’t yet know Jesus do all the time, and when we do this, we distance ourselves from them even more. I’m not advocating becoming “like the world” – just abstaining from things like this that push us away instead of things that allow us to stay close.
Thanks for speaking my love language, sarcasm, in this post Shaun – I thought it was great!
r.winn says:
Shaun, I do understand your frustration. Outward obedience with inward rebellion is not what the Lord is after. Our hearts are of utmost importance to Him.
However, I have concerns with using sarcasm in argumentation in these matters. Dr. Mohler is a Jesus loving man. He is not trying to tear the body of Christ apart but Shepard his sheep. {All pastors can do is lead as best they can…we all know they are flesh like us.} I think these frustrations could have been articulated to benefit the Body and I think acknowleding that so many Christians look and act no different than the unsaved is an overall valid point.
Blessings to you Brother! I appreciate your voice in our Family.
Sincerely,
rachel
Shaun Groves says:
Rachel, you make the best point here today. Dr. Mohler is a Jesus loving man and my brother in Christ.
And I think he’s wrong. If he ever read my blog he’d likely think I was wrong a time or two ; )
I also think his error is one we can all learn from.
So I kept my post focussed on his logic, his position: Christians should not be involved with anything that was created by pagans and intended for pagan ends such as honoring or connecting with or promoting false gods.
I never once attacked the man and never would. I respect him. I love him. I treated him with respect while doing my best to destroy his logic with humor. He’s been known to do a little of that himself…quite effectively.
ann says:
My understanding was that he was saying it was dangerous to be involved with activities dealing with demons. My real issue with yoga is that I believe the spirit world is real. (Speaking of the spirit world, I may have mixed up my Southeast Asian countries with the spirit houses thing…I may have been thinking of the Philippines.) Anyway, I believe in the Holy Spirit and I also believe there are other spirits. I believe in a spirit world. And I think it’s dangerous to pretend it doesn’t exist. That’s why I have issues with yoga, and I think why my husband does, too–because his grandfather was an evangelist in rural India who exercised demons. (A baptist.) We saw him do it one Sunday during our visit, just while praying for a church member. Demons (or evil spirits) are a part of daily life in India. They are here, too, but we don’t see it. So, call me crazy, but I agree with the guy. And not just because we have to protect our Christian reputation–how others see us–but also because we have to protect our Spiritual condition. (And that’s why I had a problem with the music in the yoga class. Kind of felt like an invitation for me–inviting that false god into the class. I believe there are lifeless wooden idols, but I also believe there are living, active evil spirits.)
ann says:
Sorry–one more thing I forgot to say. I think I hear what you are saying here, that the guy is overreacting and denying that Christians can practice yoga type moves without any of the eastern spirituality involved, but this post stirred a fire inside me because I think it’s so dangerous that the American church ignores the spirit world so much. (including the Holy Spirit of God. Like, God is a very logical theory that we should stand behind.)
Alejandra says:
Great post! That was hilarious! I was recently listening to Ravi Zacharias answer a question about the practice of yoga. He also agreed on discernment.
NancyTyler says:
Something I ask myself a lot is “What do they see, when they see me?” as I’m surrounded by coworkers and neighbors and friends who know that I’m a committed follower of Christ but who aren’t themselves Christians, or are newer in their faith.
In my current culture, Halloween and the other holidays are far enough removed from their pagan spiritual beginnings that the way in which I participate in them isn’t something that would generally cause somebody confusion or concern. Corn, Thursdays–yeah, kind of non-issues. 🙂 But yoga is still commonly enough used in the Hindu and Buddhist contexts that I am not at peace engaging in it. Am I afraid that it’ll take me away spiritually? Nah. My concern is what the expression of my freedom will cost the people I know are watching for Christ in me.
Reading I Corinthians 8 compels me to think and pray through the things I want to do and buy and say to see what effect the exercise of my freedom will have on the people I sense God is leading me to influence. And at this time, yoga doesn’t pass the test for me.
Shaun Groves says:
Absolutely! You’re exercising discernment rather than following a public blanket prohibition of all things labeled “yoga.” Right on!
Now, in my little po-dunk town? There’s no Hindu population. Zero Buddhists. This is the buckle of the bible belt. We took yoga from a Southern Baptist Sunday school teacher – stretching while listening to Shout To The Lord and I Can Only Imagine.
Discernment exercised in individual context regarding matters on which the bible is silent…is a beautiful thing.
NancyTyler says:
That’s called Fauxga, my dear. 🙂
Shaun Groves says:
Yes. Yes it is ; ) But I think it’s still covered under Dr. Mohler’s prohibition.
I miss you, friend. Wish you lived closer…like next door. We could do some fauxga together in these parts without making anybody stumble.
NancyTyler says:
Miss you too, pal. Don’t know how good I’d be at fauxga though. I’m a little teapot, short and stout wheras you can probably do the perfect pretzel pose. (There’s gotta be a pretzel pose right? If they can name poses after animals, they can name them after snack foods too.)
thomas says:
Nancy & Shaun I want to say thank you for your influences.
Oh, I think that I am a little late at this, but happy birthday, Nancy.
Thomas
NancyTyler says:
Thanks Thomas! You’re not late–I’m celebrating all month long. 🙂
Marsha says:
I am not going to tell people what to do, but Yoga does not appeal to me anymore even though it did a few yrs ago when JYoga was being offered at the community center of the former church I used to go to. I did not go because I felt it would dishonor my mom.
I am not going to tell anyone what they should do but I issue major word of warning. I saw on another website that people who practiced Yoga suffered from mysterious things that medical professionals were not even able to diagnose. Exercise is supposed to be beneficial and for me this was more of a reason for me not to do it, since I don’t want to have to go to the trouble of seeing a doctor.
Have any of you heard of Praise Moves?
Katie B says:
Perhaps I too am a geriatric at heart (love that ann!!)…For some reason, this post hurts my spirit. I suppose that sounds corny. One of the joys we have in Christ Jesus is that we are no longer under the law. Instead, we live by faith and under the instruction of the Holy Spirit. “So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of sinful nature.” (Galatians 5:16). I truly believe there are some that can do Yoga and purely derive healthy benefits and not at all have their faith in Christ put into jeopardy. However, we (my husband and I) have experienced first hand the heartache of losing a sister (an actual sister) to New Age and spirit guides and the slippery slope began with Yoga. A lot of yoga. Now, I’m not on a street corner warning people not to attend a yoga class BUT neither am I poo pooing those who do. Our Creator God knows each one of us best and His Spirit helps us discern those things that might get us into trouble. For some, that means they should swear off Yoga all together. Who are we, as fellow members of the body of Christ, to question those who are being cautious? Perhaps, someday, we may find ourselves being cautioned by the Holy Spirit to avoid something that many “mainstream Christians” find harmless. Let us spur one another on in the race that is before us to follow Jesus with complete abandonment KNOWING that their abandonment may very well look different than ours. I know the post was meant to be tongue in cheek and I appreciate the humor (i really do). But I caution that we not make light of areas that truly do cause people to stumble. “For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.” (Ephesians 6:12). And with that…I will get off my soap box. Sorry if I came off like a wet rag, it was not my intent.
Lindsay says:
I think it’s interesting and important to note a couple of things:
1. Many of the pagan roots of the rituals that you have listed here are now obsolete. At the very least, they are culturally obsolete in America. And the original intent of assuming these traditions was to help introduce Christianity to their practitioners. Yoga’s roots, however, are alive and well…in other countries and increasingly in the United States. With the advent of the internet and the global connectivity, these roots probably will not die away quite as easily. The spiritual implications behind this practice are holding an entire country in bondage…bondage that denies Christ and promotes poverty. Two purposes to which you are staunchly opposed. And, instead of American Christians adopting the practice of Yoga in order to reach out to Hindus or Buddhists and appeal for them to meditate on God, Hindus and Buddhists are reaching out to Americans (Christian or not) in an appeal to focus away from Christ.
2. Many American Christians seem to think yoga is a harmless form of exercise. The ones (like Dr. Mohler) who espouse a different view come under fire…being called a Pharisee or worse. Indian Christians, however, make no qualms about their distaste for yoga. K.P. Yohannon (the founder of Gospel for Asia) is fervent in his opposition to the practice of Yoga.
3. Discernment is needed at all times, as you’ve previously warned: when reading a post by Dr. Mohler and even when reading a post criticizing Dr. Mohler.
Shaun Groves says:
1. Thus the need to exercise discernment in our own context. Who is the teacher? What is the expressed purpose of the class? What is my motivation in taking it? Where is it held?
2. For the record, while some of my commenters have been quite rude to Dr. Mohler, I have not been disrespectful. I’ve not called him a pharisee, nor do I think he is one. I think his logic on this particular issue is deeply flawed, not the man…well, no more than I am ; )
3. Amen.
long time reader, first time commenter says:
2. Because sarcasm is ALWAYS the most loving, gentle, and Christ-like way to counter an argument without ever possibly coming off as attacking someone personally. Insightful.
My sarcasm aside, I have to agree with Lindsay, Rachel, and whoever else commented on your use of sarcasm in this entry. While I do think that sarcasm has the potential to be used in powerful ways (“A Modest Proposal” is a classic example), I also think it is incredibly difficult to implement it in a way that is PERCEIVED as loving, regardless of how loving the writer’s intent was. Honestly, while I am a big fan of most of your posts, and even though I agree with the point you’re making in this post, I found this one to be pretty distasteful.
Sarcasm by definition implies mockery and contempt. Generally speaking, people already have trouble accepting truth — they find it offensive, or they feel attacked. Why make things even more difficult by throwing mockery or contempt on top of that? Is that really the best way to share the truth with love?
I guess unnecessary use of sarcasm just makes me cringe. Believe me, I used to be the queen of sarcasm — I’ve even had English teachers write me notes on how I had a rare gift in it! — but I’ve found over the years that it can be severely detrimental if not used with extreme caution. Not only can it easily hurt others, but the intellectual pride that naturally comes with “successfully” making sarcastic remarks or essays or whatever all the time is pure poison.
Janet Oberholtzer says:
Ever since hearing about Mohler and Driscoll’s comments about yoga I’ve been thinking about writing a post about it, but wasn’t sure I could communicate what I was thinking clearly. Well, you just did with this post … excellent! I’ll be directing others here.
As you so cleverly pointed out, almost all of life is a slippery slope … and if we start making laws there’s no end in sight. Which I think is what a couple wise people in an important book already told us — it’s not about what we do, it’s about the motive of our hearts.
I grew up strict traditional Mennonite (almost Amish) and the rules were plenty! And at each yearly membership meeting, there was another rule or two added to the already loooong do’s and don’t list … because if you are depending on rules to make you holy, you will always need more.
So live well, laugh often, love much and yoga on!
Jon says:
Shaun,
I think Dr. Mohler did make a distinction, as Brad noted above. If you’re doing a physical exercise absent the spiritual, meditation stuff he noted, it isn’t “Yoga”. It may be a physically beneficial exercise. But it’s not yoga, as described by the individual he quotes in his article.
This post and several comments felt less funny and more like ridicule and disrespect as I read them. Should we be known for what we “DO”? Sure. How about we start the “do” list with loving God with all our heart, soul, and mind? I think Dr. Mohler’s points on Yoga are a good example of being discerning about where or to what we give pieces of our heart, soul and mind. And I struggle to find humor in whimsical remarks about who might or might not spend eternity in hell.
Shaun Groves says:
He did not make the distinction in the post I linked to – the only one I knew about (my fault).
Instead, he lumped “family friendly” yoga at the Whitehouse Easter egg hunt (irony?) in with tantric sex-tinged yoga. He made no distinction when stating that Christians are compromising when practicing yoga – regardless of where they practice it, with whom, with what end in mind, etc etc etc.
I’ve reread it several times. There’s no distinction. He issued a public blanket prohibition against whatever goes by the name “yoga” – which is quite the broad amoebic term.
JessicaB says:
Also, this whole beautiful satire of a post made me think of that book Pagan Christianity.
Eye opening read. 🙂
JessicaB says:
P.S. Shaun-
Do you think there’s a Forest Ranger Angel somewhere perturbed by the fact that you set spiritual wild fires for a living?
😀
misty says:
So funny!
Gail says:
LOVE LOVE LOVE this! (do not confuse this adoration of your blog post as idolatry…)
Thanks for your humor!
Jon says:
Well…if It were my turn in the “pick who is right” game, I’m gonna go with Dr Mohler.
But, Shaun, your follow up comments were helpful. Thank you.
Shaun Groves says:
Good to know. Thanks for reading.
Maybe you could pick me for kickball? Because of yoga I’m betting I’m a hair faster getting to first base ; )
Lindsay says:
For the record, I’m going with you on hairstyles. 🙂 We good? 🙂
Paul Beltis says:
Shaun, thanks for your eye-opening insights! In a related note, beware not to fall into the trap one of our neighbors did; with a large family and a house not too big, they converted their garage into a bedroom for their two teenage boys. Wouldn’t you know it, before heading off to college both of the boys turned into cars; well, actually the older one is more of a small SUV….
Caroline says:
Why don’t we just continue pursuing God and not things of this world. We should pattern our lives after the cross instead of what “so easily entangles.”
I understand your point, but I think the humor is lost on such a serious subject as pursuing our Lord in earnest.
Love you, but disagree.
Jon says:
Ha, Shaun. ANYONE can pick who they think is right. It’s quite another thing to be the kickball Captain.
But I’d love to be on your squad the next time a game breaks out.
cshell says:
Why pick this topic to pounce on discernment again? Oh, because it hits close to home, your wife does yoga and you took a “yoga” class in baptist college.
I loved the post, it was funny and got your point across. I just struggle where as a christian where do we “draw the line”…we can make a case for so much that is in the world today.
I have a whole list of things i would pull the discernment card on and many here would think i’m nuts. So what is the answer? What should I do as a believer and what shouldn’t I? Who should I listen to? Shaun? Driscoll? Al? Homer?
I have a headache…off the Lifeway and then on to my yoga class…
Shaun Groves says:
I like the Mennonite answer to your question: discernment is best practiced in community with other believers who recognize scripture as authoritative, God’s Spirit as present Teacher and Christ’s life as the model – people who love God and love us.
I believe that where the bible is silent we should be, at the very least, humbly uncertain. By all means, don’t take my word for anything. Search the scriptures together with community. Do the hard work of discernment as I’m sure you already are.
And, btw, I’m not passionate about yoga in the least. Haven’t done it in years. Nor has my wife. Yoga’s not the point.
Kelli says:
I was in a yoga class not long ago where the instructor finished by bowing low and saying, “May you all shine like the lotus in a field of mud. Namaste.”
While the rest of the class bowed back, I laughed out loud thus receiving the stink eye from several in the room. I couldn’t help it. What does that even mean?!
I love the physical benefits of yoga and couldn’t agree more with you – we can be discerning on such issues. I have walked out of yoga classes that left me feeling unsettled in my spirit. And I have greatly benefitted from yoga classes that were a kick butt workout.
And I like Halloween.
Christine says:
Love this! Thank you Shaun! Bowing in awe (but not an idolatrous, “no other gods before me” sort of way) at how you manage to say volumes without actually coming out and saying it in so many words! Brilliant!
Shaun Groves says:
A friend just passed me this much-better post on the subject of Christians and yoga…among other things:
http://www.scriptoriumdaily.com/2010/10/11/on-yoga-a-call-for-a-christian-imagination/
MUCH better.
Lori says:
I have read all the comments and loved your post. I teach yoga AND I am a Christian, bought with the blood of my Savior. In talking with my pastor, we came across an important distinction that I think will help to clairfy. There is “Y”oga (with an upper case “Y”) and there is “y”oga with a lower case “y”) In Yoga, there is a spiritual aspect, it is a form of worship, seeking to be a vessel of the diving as Albert Mohler spoke of. Then, there is yoga – what you are speaking of here. I could not teach Yoga because that would go against everything I believe (and because I have NEVER been to a class or workshop that addresses that practice). But, I can teach and practice yoga. We stretch and breathe and strengthen our bodies. One of the reasons that people have been doing these poses for thousands of years is that they work, they ease pain, they increase functional strength and flexibiliby. The Hindus do not have the corner on the market in breathing and stretching. I have freedom in Christ to practice yoga just like I have freedom in Christ to drink a glass of wine. Some choose not to for their reasons, I will never be critical of their choices. I just ask for people to be respectful. If Christians would stop trying to preach to Christians about how to be “more Christian” and start telling people about Jesus, we would be doing a better job of fulfilling the great comission. The problem is that it is more comfortable to debate doctrine and practice that it is to tell someone one the Truth and to share Christ. Let’s stop hurting our witness by tearing each other down and let’s go out and share Christ, because whether people do yoga or not, their greatest need is HIM!
jenn says:
Love this post. Very funny and so true. Personally I have left a yoga class because I started to feel convicted about some of the meditation stuff. But to me the poses are just that – poses. Its good exercise and I own several yoga cds that focus more on the physical and not on the spiritual side of yoga.
Spence Smith says:
I’m so glad you said this the way you did. randy showed me his post the other day and i was about to come unglued.
I love it when your sense of humor tackles subjects like this… it warms my ever lovin heart:)
Jeff Holton says:
This compels me to ask: What kind of glue do you use in the first place?
I might need to get me some of that.
🙂
Jeff Holton says:
I’m not licensed to comment here. I had Tandoori Chicken for lunch.
I’m Hindu for the next few hours as a result of it.
When I get home, maybe I’ll have one of the Kosher dogs that’s in the freezer.
Oy Vishnu!
Lisa Smith @stretchmarkmama says:
That. was. hilarious.
And if you’ve not read Pagan Christianity, please do–it’s for the true cynic at heart. The short version: most (if not all) of what we do at church has pagan roots.
I call a boycott!
Dan says:
Discernment is one of my constant prayer requests of God. Too many people do things without thinking about them. I don’t say “God Bless you” every time peole sneeze; not because I don’t want peole to be blessed, but because of the origins (quick- be blessed before the devil climbs up your nose!), and I want people to REALLY be blessed, not use a blessing as a meaningless knee-jerk reaction. Do people bless others for everything that flies out of an orifice? I think not.
However, we need to use discernment, and motive, to reclaim the pagan world for Christ. Can you go trick-or-treating while dressed up in a costume, and still be a Christian? Maybe, if your motives are to dress up as something fun and not evil, and to share the joy of a fun night with the community. Ok, the trick part might need some work…
Doing yoga poses without the pagan spirituality, should be fine, if your motives are clear (exercise, meditation on Christ, college credit); ask Thomas Merton. Be aware of the dangers, but reclaim it as a way of glorifying God. Same with holidays. Birthdays? We celebrate the gift of life given to us in children. W ho gave them to us? God!
Michelle ~ Blogging from the Boonies says:
As a “baby Christian” just 2.5 years into my walk with Jesus, and as someone who considered myself Pagan for many years, I am pretty new as using discernment to judge if something has a place in my Christian life.
Truth be told, last year I plugged my ears to anyone who mentioned that trick or treating might be wrong and I held tight to the thought that it was something my kids deserved to do for fun.
Then, I heard God’s whisper in my heart. First it came by way of finding out that Compassion doesn’t want ANYTHING having to do with Halloween to be sent to our kids.
Then, looking through last year’s Halloween photos I started to notice that many of the little girls were dressed in what could pass as lingerie. Others were demons and zombies. I remembered consoling my then 3 year old because some of the houses and costumes we saw scared her.
Then, I was repeatedly running into verses like 1 Thessalonians 5:22 (“Abstain from all appearance of evil.”) and 2 Corinthians 6:14 (“Be not unequally yoked together with unbelievers, for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness and what communion hath light with darkness.”) You know how God places certain verses in front of your eyes over and over? I spoke to my husband to find out the very same things were being placed on his heart.
Anyway, all this is to say, maybe God has convicted me on not doing Halloween anymore specifically because of my previous Pagan/Wiccan past. Can there be good in it? Probably. Is there some evil in it. My heart says yes. MY heart is convicted.
Brennan says:
Love this. Thanks for using the ability to rationalize anything we do for the good of reality.
Kristen says:
When I was a kid, my dad was president of a theological seminary. He was also a Tae Kwon Do afficianado. But he had to practice IN SECRET, because it was too controversial.
People like Mohler make my head want to explode.
Jolanthe says:
There is so much that I would love to say about this, but since my head is so stuffed up right now, I might just explode if I have to put too much brain power into it.
Suffice it to say ~ I think this is an excellent post and while the me-that-used-to-be can understand where Mohler is coming from, the me that is firmly implanted in God’s grace and who HE has called me to be, loves that we can humorously look at this and know that I have FREEDOM in Christ.
Loni says:
It was good to read through all the comments and your replies because at first I was rather stirred! But it all comes down to our personal convictions from God – not other’s convictions made ours. We don’t do Santa, the Easter Bunny or Halloween. BUT, in the spring we do a “spring egg hunt” (not on Resurrection Sunday) and do things for spring starting and then remembering Jesus during Good Friday (Passover) and Resurrection Sunday. It’s made separate.
I struggle with things like the Christmas tree – the pagan roots, taking away from Jesus ~ YET we’ve had neighbors question why we don’t celebrate Christmas when we don’t have a tree up. So, we’ve tried to make our tree “Jesus-focused”.
I believe with all things there has to be discretion. If I took Yoga at our local community college, it probably would be very new agey . . . not focusing on Jesus at all. But I would consider Yoga or Pilates, if I did it with other Christian women, with praise music, focusing on Jesus.
We too run from Halloween . . . it is known as the day for witches to “pray” for us Christians. It is giving Satan a big step in the door with evilness. BUT, we do celebrate the Autumn season with hayrides, caramel apples and pumpkin carving (yes I know there are pagan roots with this too . . . but this is where we can make EVERYTHING evil! God certainly has made the bad into good in my life – so He certainly can make good out of a pumpkin HE created!)
No, we try not saying “Jeez” or “Lordy” or “OMG” in texting . . . that is “our” personal conviction in teaching our children. And, I might consider saying to someone to think about it . . . what is those in the world thinking you are saying or referring to?
These kinds of conversations can stretch us and grow us . . . learn to put some things aside and learn to reconsider other things.
Just my long-winded thoughts . . . 🙂
connie says:
All I know is that I have read articles by Hindu practitioners who are offended at the West’s appropriation of yoga for exercise. One compared it to having a baptism exercise class!
As for me, I choose not to partake of yoga because of its origins. If I am stretching after a spin class I am not going to ask too carefully what the origin of the stretch is, because a stretch is just a stretch-but I personally draw the line at going to a class specifically taught as yoga.
The Bible tells us not to argue about disputable matters, so I won’t pound someone over the head with my Bible if they are ok with going to a yoga class, but my personal conviction is I do NOT need it. (Particularly as I used to be very friendly with a yoga instructor who taught at my gym and who really was studying and teaching it with a spiritual bent. There is real power in it. Not the good kind.)
ben stewart says:
“baptism exercise class”
Without the spiritual element would that be water aerobics?
Veretax says:
I don’t know about Yoga, but frankly I keep coming back to what Paul Said, to a man anything a man believes defiles him does. Its like the eating of meat to idols, In some places the left over meat was cheaper to buy, but what if a brother found out where it was. Yet we know idols are nothing, they aren’t real, and God sits on his throne.
So I ran into an similar situation with a long time friend ina writing guild. He and the group had dove head first into writing this new idea and so much of the mythos was steeped in Jewish Mysticism. Unfortunately, I had to step back and say no. (THat’s a bit of an over simplification, I tried as best I could to find a way to bleed for my savior to shine through it, but it was clear that wasn’t going to happen) So there are times when you have to take a stand, but we should also choose our battles carefully
As for Halloween, I hate the holiday, have since I beam a Christian, but my younger brothers, and childern don’t feel that way, so while I don’t dress up, I make sure they are safe as we use it as an opportunity to get to know our neighbor, who knows maybe a chance to witness to one of them some day.
Bill says:
Most of the Southern Baptists around here seem to have an aversion to all forms of exercise, not just yoga.
But in all seriousness, when I was growing up they were saying the same sort of thing about rock and roll music. It is Satanic. It leads to immorality and promiscuity. It diverts the Christian from God. Etc.
Now the youth groups go to Christian rock concerts.
This sort of reaction is just ignorance, and by that I don’t mean stupidity, I just mean an absence of knowledge.
Someone might ask Dr. Mohler to explain the origin and meaning of the Greek work Logos, which John uses in Chapter One of his gospel (rendered in English as “the Word”).
I appreciate how you have used humor to expose the silliness of yogaphobia.
Namaste.
misty says:
1 Corinthians 10:23-11:1
I have the right to do anything you say – but not everything is beneficial. I have the right to do anything – but not everything is constructive. No one should seek their own good, but the good of others.
Eat anything sold in the meat market without raising questions of conscience for “The earth is the Lord’s and everything in it”.
If an unbeliever invites you to a meal and you want to go, eat whatever is put before you without raising questions or conscience. But if someone says to you “This has been offered in sacrifice” then do not eat it, both for the sake of the one who told you and for the sake of conscience. I am referring to the other person’s conscience, not yours. For why is my freedom being judged by anothers conscience? If I take part in the meal with thankfulness, why am I denounced because of something I thank God for?
So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God. Do not cause anyone to stumble, whether Jews, Greeks or the church of God – even as I try to please everyone in every way. For I am not seeking my own good but the good of many, so that they may be saved. Follow my example as I follow the example of Christ.
I agree with so many of the others comments. We need to use discernment when making decisions. While I have never practiced yoga and I do not know anything about it I am sure that you can do yoga and not take part in the spiritual matter of it.
Everything is permissable but not all things are beneficial. That is where we have to use discernment. While one person may feel that doing yoga or partaking in Halloween or Christmas is wrong others won’t. We have to allow the Spirit to lead us in what God is calling us to do.
Great post, Shaun!!
Cary says:
Thank you Shawn,
I’m a first year Lutheran seminarian and was pointed to this blog post from a Facebook friend. I must say you’ve got a new follower…thanks.
Christa Allan says:
I suppose if yoga is one of the greatest problems facing the SB today, requiring the attention given by Dr. Mohler, then clearly we should celebrate.
Sigh. But I live in New Orleans. I’m doomed.
Dasaya Cates says:
Eloquently written … and such veracity! I love it.
Mike says:
My thinking is that this wasn’t a great post – perhaps showing a lack of discernment by the author. Eastern mysticism, yoga, meditation, etc. can be a stumbling block for the undiscerning believer. Making light of it as though there is no spiritual danger involved is probably not the wisest position for a respected spiritual elder to take. The clear Biblical emphasis of both testaments is to direct people away from false religion.
Matt Church says:
couple of points
I am a fan…… huge fan
I disagree with your post
Here is a quote from the very post that you linked to that I read on Sept 20th when it was first blogged by Albert Mohler. I thought it was very clear and specific, no blanket statement.
“There is nothing wrong with physical exercise, and yoga positions in themselves are not the main issue. But these positions are teaching postures with a spiritual purpose. Consider this — if you have to meditate intensely in order to achieve or to maintain a physical posture, it is no longer merely a physical posture.
The embrace of yoga is a symptom of our postmodern spiritual confusion, and, to our shame, this confusion reaches into the church. Stefanie Syman is telling us something important when she writes that yoga “has augured a truly post-Christian, spiritually polyglot country.” Christians who practice yoga are embracing, or at minimum flirting with, a spiritual practice that threatens to transform their own spiritual lives into a “post-Christian, spiritually polyglot” reality. Should any Christian willingly risk that?”
I see no blanket prohibition on anything….. it is His thoughts on the subject and a book by Stefanie Syman, The Subtle Body: The Story of Yoga in America,
the part about family friendly and tantric yoga/sex etc are Stefanie’s words. the white house, easter egg thing are not even in the same paragraph
He clearly stated
“There is nothing wrong with physical exercise, and yoga positions in themselves are not the main issue.
I think you had to miss that!!!! or intentionally overlooked it.
I read the other blog post that was suppose to be so much better on Yoga and he mention Mohler too and after reading it, I came to the same conclusion that he didn’t read Mohler’s post very well either.
I think resting on our own quote…… unqoute discernment can be just as dangerous as bowing to other gods (buddha etc) How?
There are things that I don’t do today that I did years ago…. today I have the discernment and understanding to know better. The big difference! even when I was doing things I didn’t think were wrong…… I never stood with the boldness of I am right and what I am doing is not wrong…… once we step into that realm we are being prideful and we should always be willing to listen to our brother in Christ if we are admonished in love. Mohlers post was not attacking or condemning it was specific and clear.
I think those that read this post first
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101007/ap_on_re/us_rel_southern_baptists_yoga
from Yahoo allowed it to taint the reason and clarity of Mohler’s original post.
I think this was an opportunity taken for sensationalism and over all a big miss…..
I still love ya and am still a really big fan……
I am going to show you the grace that has not been afforded our brother Al Mohler in this post.
Jody says:
Matt,
don’t you think that you’re simply highlighting another aspect of disagreement here, i.e. the idea that just because something requires concentration or meditation that it must be meditation that is intrinsically opposed or dangerous to the Christian faith, and the two–that is, action and reflection–are impossible to separate? Seems to me that criticism of that point is one of the fundamental purposes of the post. Not sure anything was actually missed, just that the implications were disagreed with.
Matt Church says:
Now that you mention it Jody mmmmmmmmm…… No
I am highlighting this
There is nothing wrong with physical exercise, and yoga positions in themselves are not the main issue.
Yet it has been said repeatedly that there is a blanket statement lumping all yoga together and prohibiting it. Mohler’s statement clearly says that the exercise and yoga positions in themselves are not the main issue. So if you want to do the whooping crane, dog, the one legged king pigeon, or the skunk ape….. knock yourself out but if you are doing exercise or these poses with anything spiritually transcending in nature in mind or embracing any of the fundamental yoga teachings you need to take a hard look at what you are doing.
and highlighting this
Christians who practice yoga are embracing, or at minimum flirting with, a spiritual practice that threatens to transform their own spiritual lives into a “post-Christian, spiritually polyglot” reality. Should any Christian willingly risk that?”
Clearly Mohler is stating hey you guys should really take a look at this……..
at minimum flirting with….. that sound pretty prohibiting to me right. It is a comment meant to nudge you in to reflecting on YOGA all that it can and does encompass.
Should any Christian willingly risk that?” I think that is a good question that asks you to take your own circumstances and make a determination of whether it encompasses the specific details…. again SPECIFIC DETAILS that Mohler put in his original post.
I don’t think Mohler was talking about doing stretching exercises and poses while listening to Shout to the Lord at a Baptist college as YOGA even if the poses felt strangely like the camel pose.
All of the stuff between those two points was really for continuity as there seems to be a reading comprehension issue here.
Both this blog post and the other blog post that I will label “the better blog post on yoga” (even though I disagree with both as I stated earlier) are both suspect at best in my opinion. Mohler wrote his post on September 20, 2010 and this post and the other were both written after the Oct 7th 2010 post on yahoo. If either of these posts had been in response to Mohler’s original post prior to yahoo’s take on Mohlers post I am confident they would have taken a different approach and tone with out the overtones that came from the yahoo post. The yahoo post basically egg several people into responding with prejudice IMHO and as a result were not able to read Mohlers post at that time with clarity or real discernment as to what he was saying.
Shaun Groves says:
Matt, thanks for the thorough response. I get where you’re coming from. I hear you loud and clear.
I was completely unaware of the Yahoo article…until you linked to it. Still haven’t read it.
Someone passed me Mohler’s post via Twitter DM. I read his post and chuckled. Then wrote my own. Ironically, I did both while listening to the Slumdog Millionaire soundtrack.
Seriously, I had no idea the Yahoo article existed until you brought it up.
Jody says:
Great post, I really appreciate the humor–it’s one of the best ways to deal with these sorts of disagreements without becoming vitriolic.
William Guice says:
I heart you
Chris says:
EVERY position in yoga honors a false god. That is a pure and simple fact.
Here is the issue as I see it. If it is pagan in nature but widely excepted in the Christian body, it seems to be acceptable. Ummm, can we not say the same for sin. How many Christians now believe abortion is okay or same-sex marriages? We even have churches that accept homosexual priests.
The high road is, do away with pagan things. Can Christians live a life without paganism? You bet. I have not ever heard of a Christian who lost their life giving up holloween. I have heard of them being stoned by the church (and in the post).
So, while I see the humor in this post, I disagree with the content. A short google of yoga positions god would be a good beginning for anybody who wants to be honest with the context of paganism and yoga.
As for people who “think” God does not mind you paying homage to false gods (intentional or otherwise), you should read your bible.
Shaun Groves says:
Chris, do you mind if I ask what you do for a living?
Shanny says:
This just looks like a personal attack on someone who disagreed with you. I don’t see Mohler attacking you for your writings against him – so why must you attack someone with a heartfelt comment that included nothing personal against you?
Mohler wrote his article to fellow Christians as a request that they look deeper into a subject that many have never thought of. He never once condemned, as Matt Church so kindly pointed out.
This whole article reply and many of the comments following could really use an injection of true LOVE. “Christian” men of this generation have truly become ugly in their debates of any Biblical topic. They honestly feel like they are the only ones who “get it” – the only ones who have real understanding, and anyone who questions them is automatically wrong. But not just wrong, they become their personal enemy and target for a full-on verbal war.
Yes, That is how this looks. How can ANY of this topic or following debate bring one person closer to Christ? Isn’t that why He gave us His name? To debate His intent and writings – oh, I mean to bring others closer to a personal understanding of Christ?
Mohler was attempting to open Christian eyes and help bring people closer in their personal relationships with Christ. Was that the intent of this reply – or did this reply really, at the core, just do exactly what it claims Mohler was doing?
Shaun Groves says:
Shanny, you ask an EXCELLENT question about how this post is loving and how on earth it could bring people closer to God. You are right to ask it and I’d be wrong not to answer. I’ll do so in tomorrow’s post.
Thanks for asking.
Chris says:
*accepted in the Christian body…
anon says:
It may be helpful to know when thinking about meditation and contemplation, that Christians have been doing this in the form of “hesychia” – silent prayer – for at least 1700 years, probably in a sense from the start: meditating on small pieces of Scripture or the name of Jesus. It was a staple of Christian middle east and maintained most strongly in monastic traditions. There are a number of contemporary books on this topic, the most recent being The Jesus Prayer by Frederica Mathewes-Green. Something to think about.
Scott Baker says:
Ugh. Really? You’re still taking heat over sarcasm? I feel for you, buddy. As if there’s any other option available when confronted with people who see as black & white as Mohler does.
Eyvonne says:
It is with fear and trembling that I even comment on this post.
In Pursuit of God A.W. Tozer says:
How tragic is it that we in this day have left the seeking up to our teachers.
The longer you’re in spiritual leadership, the clearer it becomes that people expect you to do their seeking for them. And, it is easy to think you’re doing them a favor by doing so.
Shaun, I understand your reaction to this. I also understand why Dr. Mohler felt the need to address Yoga as part of the larger picture of what’s going in American culture.
Instead of disregarding Mohler out of hand, I think all Christians should consider the larger context of what he is talking about — the incorporation of other belief systems that are contrary to Christ into our everyday experience without thinking.
He may have overstated his case to make a point; but then again, he’s not the only one.
Everyone in Christian spiritual leadership should encourage believers toward discernment, but they should also warn of trends in culture that may derail them.
Shaun Groves says:
Absolutely agree, Eyvonne and appreciate your even-handed wisdom dishing here. Thanks for reading.
Shayne says:
Who is Al Mohler?
And am I gonna go to hell for not taking what he or any other “Christian Rock Star” has to say as gospel?
Shaun Groves says:
President of the largest Southern Baptist seminary in the U.S., a radio show host and author. And a snappy dresser. Seriously, he’s an impeccable dresser.
And, no, not if by “gospel” you mean “thou shalt not practice anything called yoga.” No ma’am, you won’t.
Shayne says:
Phew. Thanks for clearing that up. I was worried.
jen says:
But by the grace of God go I.
Read this last night, woke up thinking about it. The thought that I can’t get out of my head is that this really isn’t about yoga or Christmas or corn (believe you already made that point very well, Shaun) but the fact that we are all sinners(Rom 3:23) in desperate need of a savior. We are also called to be gentle yet wise (Matt. 10:16), and to live with an understanding that we are in peril at all times yet saved and sealed by the death of a powerful Ally. We are called to be in the world and not of it (John 17:16-18), and we are called to be all things to all men (I Cor 9:19-23). We are not called to go around shaking our finger at others (Luke 6:37) or living in fear (Rom 8:15).
I find it to be a tricky balance, but God doesn’t seem to . . . always reminding my wicked (Rom. 3:23) and wander-thirsty (James 1:14) heart that I am to keep Him first.
(ie. If I trust that by doing or not doing that I might be closer to the Lord, I am wrong. If I trust that I am saved despite my wanderings, I might not be trusting in God at all, or I might really be led astray.)
Perhaps I’m simplifying it all too much . . . and perhaps that’s just what we need. (Again, I don’t know the answer; I’ll just pray for discernment.)
Eyvonne says:
There is so much truth in your comment, Jen.
Shaun Groves says:
Amen.
Kris says:
LOVE this reply! Thank you.
Alexia says:
Hymns are out – many are old bar songs with the words changed.
I love how you got right to the root of the issue here with a little humor thrown in. Such truth. To start making vast condemnations of things that are not condemned in scripture makes us no better than the pharisees of old. Jesus freed us from all of those laws when he died on the cross and it’s always been about the heart since. (ummm to hate is to murder, to lust is to actually commit the act? How many people mention those these days?)
Jesus loves us right where we are, but He also loves us enough to not leave us where we are. As we grow closer to Him the things of this world get farther away. He’ll deal with those things that should not be in our lives as we listen to Him and grow with Him.
Words of caution are ALWAYS appreciated. But if you’re going to outright condemn something for every Jesus follower – you better be able to back it up with scripture and good solid proof.
peggi says:
In order to have true discernment we have to have knowledge of the area in question.
I think too often we go with the flow of what everyone else is doing.
This includes following religious leaders teachings without thinking twice if they are correct.
Jodi says:
I agree with you on one point – we can all use a good shot of discernment.
That being said, the funniest part about this post is the admitted lack of discernment with which it was written.
Shaun Groves says:
I wrote a follow-up post today in case anyone wants to help me communicate a bit better:
http://shaungroves.com/2010/10/humor-me/
Robert Rife says:
Shaun, I hear you brother. Dr. Al really helped me to see the dangerous precipice I was on…I’m so ashamed of all my quasi-pagan shenanigans that I went straight to the Bible. Oh crap, there’s way too much sex, violence, intrigue, and controversy in there. I can’t let my kids read such smut. Besides, I’m sure if I looked hard enough I’ll find that damn yoga in there somewhere and then what do I do with my yoga tights?
interesting..... says:
Though I have not read Mohler’s article on yoga, I felt I needed to write a little blurp. I love the humor of your article, yes I think everything could be traced back to some pagan religion- face it we all start out as sinners! But as a Christian, I think we should be VERY careful what we do. We are like a fishbowl, everyone looking in to see, and more likely wanting to see us fail.
I have a brother in law who is dead set against christianity, even calling many hypocrites. He does practice elements of buddisim/hinduism- so what would he call me if he saw or heard me practicing yoga?? He knows what is behind it, part of his “religion”. I would be a hypocrite and would in fact make one of his arguments against christianity totally correct.
I think as Christians it is easy to put a Christian spin on anything. As I heard someone say recently- repackaging it and slapping a Christian theme on it doesn’t make it Christian. We don’t do halloween- why? I don’t see an issue of kids dressing up, getting candy, that kind of thing. But I also know what is behind it. In our area Satanism has a huge hold. At the elementry school I attended- a rabbit was sacrificed in the playground. So why would I, however innocent it may seem, allow my children, who are spiritually vulnerable, participate in something that is so clearly associated with Satan?
Though it is hard to stay away from anything and everything related to pagan roots, I do feel as Christians, ( as Michelle pointed out earlier), we are to run from appearances of evil. If we are KNOWINGLY practicing something that is rooted in paganism- would that honor God?? I think not…….
One further question….. Isn’t the best way for a Christian to have “relaxation and stress management” prayer and Bible reading?? I find time with the Holy Spirit the most relaxing and stress relieving of all!
Shaun Groves says:
Perhaps the post I should have written instead of this one: http://shaungroves.com/2010/10/cones-holes/
christina brown says:
I have thought about this blog post for over a week now. My first gut reaction was to laugh out loud. I agree with so much of what you said. I think that people’s comments really surprised me. But after considering it, I think I understand where they are coming from. I have been to yoga classes where there were some weird things were going on and know that some people could ‘stumble’ from it.
I take a ‘Christian’ power yoga class once a week. The only thing that makes it Christian is the Bible verse she reads before the class starts and that there is no chanting…. I think it is really all about discernment. You can’t make a blanket statement that all yoga is bad. I think your Cones and Holes post was a perfect response. Well done.