Shaun Groves
This morning I read the following e-mail from somebody in Tulsa:
I don’t know if you actually receive these emails here or if someone else reads them or if nothing happens. I am saddened to see that you are going to be at YEC in Tulsa. [What bothers me] is the fact that you are going to play at YEC which is being held at the mabee center the center of the WOF or Word of Faith movement that isn’t Christian but an abomination just like mormanism or JW’s You wouldn’t play there would you?
1 Corinthians 5
9I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— 10not at all meaning the sexually immoral of this world, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. 11But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one. 12For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? 13God judgesb those outside. “Purge the evil person from among you.”Please please please actually show that you are a Christian by not endorsing ORU or the WOF movement.
Untill the nets are full,
[Somebody in Tulsa]
I had to look up YEC. It stands for Youth Evangelism Conference and is being held at the Mabee Center (the basketball arena at Oral Roberts University) in Tulsa August 10th and 11th.
I’m not performing or speaking at YEC. But I am performing and speaking at the Mabee Center with Anita Renfroe and Mark Schultz on behalf of Compassion International on October 6th. (Buy tickets here.)
These details probably don’t matter much to you. But, in case you were wondering about the acronyms and what on earth a Mabee Center was…
I replied to Somebody in Tulsa (not his actual name) explaining that a radio station in Tulsa is renting out the Mabee Center for our concert there, inviting the entire community to attend. It is not a concert owned by, endorsing or targeting one denomination. I asked him to pray for me as I preach and sing the gospel for anyone who shows up. And I hope Somebody does.
Somebody’s e-mail reminds me of the first time I was picketed. I was on tour with Jars of Clay back in 2002. We were booked into the Fillmore in Denver – a club. The promoter for the night rented the Filmore – we didn’t. He paid a substantial sum to buy out the bar as well, so that it would remain closed all evening – an effort to avoid unnecessarily offending certain swaths of Christianity.
But some were still offended at the location and branded us as unChristian for singing in it.
They held signs and passed out tracts about the evils of mixing the “secular” venue with Christianity.
Some Christians behave as if they believe there are places Jesus should never be preached.
On the bus, before going on stage, the guys in Jars of Clay and I sang hymns and prayed together, thanking God for the opportunity of the night and asking Him to use us. Then we went on stage and sang about Jesus for everyone who showed up.
After the show, the guys in Jars of Clay ordered pizzas for the union hands charged with packing up our gear at the club and thanked them and other employees of the Fillmore personally for their long night’s work.
I think we’re to represent Jesus to everyone everywhere – if we’re blessed enough to have that opportunity. E-mail me and picket me, rip scripture from its context and fashion it into a weapon against me. But I’m still preaching Jesus wherever I’m invited and to whoever shows up.
And, yes, Somebody, that means I would most definitely sing at a Mormon church or for Jehovah’s Witnesses. (I already blog for them.) All they have to do is invite me. It’s free.
No place is secular – without Christ – once a Christian shows up. (<---Click to tweet this)
Megan says:
The Maybee Center gets rented out for all kinds of things. I ever would have even thought twice about it! My high school graduation was held there because at that time my school didn’t have a big enough auitorium.
Glad you are coming to my state and hope it is a super evening and many kids are sponsored.
PS – I remember seeing Jars of Clay for the first time. It was here in OK and they opened for PFR. *sigh* Those were the days. *grin*
brad says:
Love this. Some of my favorite and most admired groups are those that parts of the Church have issues with. U2, Switchfoot. If most of our band members weren’t underage I would love to play in clubs. Don’t we have bigger fish to fry in this day and age than worrying about if such-and-such artist is playing in such-and-such venue? I chuckled recently when a friend, commenting on a U2 song we cover in concert, said “that’s a great song to redeem”. Funny, I didn’t think it was in need of redemption. Still walking, still learning.
Jessica says:
Oh, Lordy. People!
Dina says:
Wow. Difficult. But, 1 true Christian in the midst of all – makes the difference. W/o changing your values/beliefs and still singing truth, from the giver of truth.
Katie Axelson says:
I went to a Christian concert at a “secular venue.” The next night Ozzie Osborn would be there… The Holy Spirit wasn’t scared away. The Gospel was preached. I didn’t care (other than wondering how on earth drunk people were going to get out of the parking lot zoo if we Christians struggled with it). The newspaper ran an article contrasting the two shows. I threw it away.
Katie
Jessica says:
Well doesn’t that just take the cake…. It’s kinda sad and funny if you think about it. What do they think Jesus did while He was here? He literally touched lepers folks. He put dirt and his spit from his hands onto the eyes of the blind. And ya’ll he didn’t just preach in the temple – he hung out with SINNERS. He ate a meal with them.
When are we going to figure out the the HOLY Spirit abides within us literally and that where we go that HS goes with us. Are churched people intentionally trying to be obtuse? Or do we just get some kind of thrill out of castrating the work of God?
Karen says:
“No place is secular – without Christ – once a Christian shows up”…Love that quote and will use it again! THANKS!
May Monday night be life changing for all that come!
Shaun Groves says:
Oops. I wrote August 6th but it’s actually October 6th. Sorry. ; )
Karen says:
I’ll pray Monday anyway….in advance! God not being bound by time and all that….. 🙂
Alexia says:
It always amazes me when fits are pitched about where Christians go and who they associate with. Did they miss the parts in the Bible where Jesus called Pharisees (the “real” Christians) white-washed tombs and went to minister to the ACTUAL people in need of Jesus? We’re not supposed to be bosom buddies with people who will distract us from Christ, but we’re not supposed to build a 20 foot wall and keep everyone out either. People frustrate me sometimes.
Alle says:
Thanks Shaun for handling situations like this with grace while still being a bold contender for our faith! Definitely sharing this post with friends today!
Miranda -- Compassion Calling says:
The great commission tells us to “Go in to all the world…” It doesn’t say, “Go and preach to the church and stay in your four walls…” Also remember that Jesus came to heal the sick. Thank you to all who aren’t afraid to stand up for the true pure Gospel and walk/sing, ETC where Jesus would go! Last I remembered, Gospel means “good news”. I think those who need to hear the “good news” the most are those who aren’t sitting in a church every Sunday! We’re the same way when it comes to ministering through music. We’ll go wherever they want us, as long as they don’t ask us to change our message!
Jenn says:
Oh, that makes me sad. It has been so long since I have been around people with that type of mindset that I thought maybe they had all died out or come to their senses… guess not.
Win says:
I am already signed up to work the Compassion table at your Tulsa event in October. Looking forward to helping you represent Compassion to our community.
Vicki says:
Aw, Jessica already took my line. But I won’t let that stop me!
Yes, Jesus touched people who were dirty, diseased and blind. He visited the homes of sinners and ate with them, their families and their friends (also sinners). Good grief; if He wasn’t going to mingle with sinners, there would have been no point to His coming!
Most of the Christian concerts I have attended, over the years, have been held in concert halls, not in churches. I never gave it a thought.
Zoë says:
God bless you, Shaun. I will always remember that line ‘no place is secular once a Christian shows up’. That’s fab. You’ve helped me make a leap there, with something I have been puzzling over. 🙂
Kari says:
What I appreciate *most* about all of that?
Your gentle and loving response to Somebody.
I have been Somebody, in different ways, many years past. (And probably still am, in may ways, present.) (Besides the Holy Spirit convicting me and the Lord taking me down some hundred notches) I credit the very small handful of Believers who similarly responded toward me with Grace and Peace and Love to get a hold of me – head and heart – and teach me a thing or two (or a thousand) about Grace. And peace and love.
That’s my favorite part of this.
Not that you stand your ground and preach Christ wherever and whenever – though that’s awesome, indeed.
My favorite part is how it might touch – even change – Somebody. Because the church is made up of Somebodies who often don’t know, don’t grasp, Grace until it’s been poured out on them in more tangible terms than scripture can sometimes be.
Since there are people I can no longer thank for doing that for me (though I have done it where I could), I’ll say thank you on Somebody’s behalf. That is the body behaving as the body ought – pouring out grace and peace and love on one another, too. And unfortunately, the body doesn’t always behave as the body ought – especially online.
Close, close second favorite:
“No place is secular – without Christ – once a Christian shows up.”
I’m copying that one down, too.
Anna says:
Well said! I, too, was thankful for the gentleness and kindness in the response to Somebody. We all need to be shown grace and love on this journey.
Liz Reeves says:
Bravo! Yes, yes, yes! Like Kari, I too have been “Somebody”. And I look back and recall the responses I’ve received in grace over the years. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve looked back on conversations I’ve had with more mature believers and realized how much grace they extended me. So thankful for those saints!
Jenn @ I Am Not Superwoman says:
You do what you have to do to spread the gospel that is what matters. If you only shared your gifts in the **appropriate** places then you would most likely not be able to touch as many as you do. And Anita Renfroe, she is a hoot! Our womens group went to see her when she was in Portland a few years ago. She had us all laughing til our cheeks hurt.
Michael says:
What’s interesting about Somebody’s email is the Scripture quoted is talking about associating with people who claim to be believers and still live in sin.
“But now I am writing you not to associate with anyone who claims to be a believer who is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or verbally abusive, a drunkard or a swindler. Do not even eat with such a person. For what business is it of mine to judge outsiders? Don’t you judge those who are inside? But God judges outsiders. Put away the evil person from among yourselves.”
Can’t expect non-believers to act like believers. Church discipline is the context. Keep up the ministry to believers and not-yet-believers.
shayne says:
Holy Pharisee Batman!!! You don’t mean to tell me we’ve got one (or more) “Christians” upset at what another brother is doing do you? *KAPLOW! BLAMMO! (that’s a batman-style facepalm right there)*
(you do see what I did there with the “Holy Pharisee” right? right?)
Kerry says:
Somebody received grace through your reply.
I pray the real Jesus grips him with that grace.
There, but for the grace of God, go all of us.
Mercy rescues inappropriate people in inappropriate places. Thank you, Savior.
Kris says:
I appreciate this post so much. For many reasons. Praying for you, for the event–for Somebody. Love the way you represent Christ. May we all just keep learning and loving well. By his strength, for his glory.
CJ says:
Amen, will keep praying for Christ to shine through you in all the darkness.
Amy says:
I get the same thing when we associate with our known to be drunk neighbors. “A Christian shouldn’t/ wouldn’t do that”. Oh really? Jesus would.
Tracie says:
I love the quote. Very true.
It was great to see the gracious reply, and the reminder that sometimes we need to love people exactly where they are – because that is where God has placed us.
Yvonne says:
Great lesson for all of us to learn from!
Christine baumeister says:
I recently began attending a church that is actually located in an adjoining area that is part of a brewing company in Troy, NY. It’s called Terra Nova. I have never in my life found a church where I have felt more like home.
Joy Waters Martin says:
I really appreciate the way you handled this –graciously and in truth. I often wonder how some would respond to Jesus and the places He ministered in. But we continue to pray for each other that the good news is spread to ALL — in spite of us Christians .