Shaun Groves
I’m substitute preaching on the subject of forgiveness this weekend at my home church. So I’m spending my mornings this week studying, putting my notes together and dealing with the unforgiveness in me I’m suddenly aware of.
My problem is I’m a tattler.
There’s a great story about tattlers in Luke 13 I’ve been looking at this morning. These guys go to Jesus and tattle on the Romans. They tell him how over in Galilee some Roman soldiers rode in, killed some Jewish priests in the middle of their rituals, and mixed their blood with the pure blood of the sacrifice they were making to God.
The Romans murdered men and blasphemed God. So the Jews tattled. And I don’t like what Jesus does about it.
He points a finger at the tattlers instead of the Romans and says
“Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans because they suffered this way? 3I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish. 4Or those eighteen who died when the tower in Siloam fell on them—do you think they were more guilty than all the others living in Jerusalem? 5I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.” -Luke 13:2-5
In other words, what I think he’s saying here, is “I care about sin and I want you to care about sin…starting with your own.”
I spend a lot of time telling people off in my head – it’s the only way I’ve found to keep those words coming out of my fingers or mouth. I’m suddenly aware though that God’s in my head – he’s hearing all this tattling I’m doing. This morning I believe that nursing that hostility is a sin. And that sin causes people to “perish” on numerous levels.
I want to live. Tattle free.
How do we forgive those who’ve hurt us, hurt those we love, disappointed, abused and abandoned?
I’m off to look for those answers and I’ll be back later in the day to read your comments and see if you’ve found any.
mike foster says:
great post shaun and so true. i tattle in my head too. and i need to stop it.
Jason says:
Great post, Shaun. I hear completely what you’re saying. I’ve been struggling with it because we have a family member that abused our daughter & we do all we can to keep them away from her. (This person is unrepentant for what they did.) I’m really struggling to forgive because this person shows no remorse for the abuse of a three year old child. I know God forgives. I’m just not on His level right now.
Shaun Groves says:
So sorry to hear about that, Jason. John Piper once wrote this about forgiveness in the context of marriage but I think it applies to abuses of any kind: “…there are sins that spouses commit against each other that can push forbearance and forgiveness across the line into the assisting of sin, and may warrant a redemptive separation—I choose the words carefully: a redemptive separation. I am thinking of things like assault, adultery, child abuse, drunken rage, addictive gambling or theft or lying that brings the family to ruin.”
Praying you find a way to forgive without further harming your child or assisting sin’s progression. Unimaginably difficult position you’re in. Praying.
Krissy says:
Jason, I’ve lived through a similar situation myself-abuse of my then 3 year-old daughter by a family member (and absolutely no repentance on that family member’s part). With God’s grace, I have been truly able to forgive, but I believe that the “redemptive separation” that Shaun wrote about in his response to you was essential. (I had to fight extremely hard–through many years of complex legal battles–in order for that separation to be possible.) Now, eight years later, God HAS miraculously redeemed all that happened to us, even though there were many times when that seemed impossible. One thing that was key in bringing that about for us was the prayers of others–so I’m praying now for you and yours.
Robin Vestal says:
Forgiveness is always challenging and sometimes it is the little stuff that is the hardest. It can be harder to forgive your sister a slight you percieve real or imagined than your actual enemy. I am still working at this in my life but I am finding it the most helpful to look at my own life and my need for forgiveness on both the big and the little things. That helps as a first step then I concentrate on listening to God and that usually helps me get out of an unforgiving state of mind.
Johanna says:
A good friend once gave me invaluable advice during a period of persecution, when I wanted to tattle and rail at the sky: when someone is persecuting you, pray for THEM what you want for yourself: family, children, love, health, prosperity etc. It kept me sane and it humbled me. Why did I deserve any of those things over these other people? I didn’t. “We are all sinners, of which I am the worst.”
Alex Green says:
I love what both Shane Hipps says in his 2 parter (http://www.trinitymennonite.com/audio/TMC-Sermon-2008-09-07.mp3 and http://www.trinitymennonite.com/audio/TMC-Sermon-2008-09-14.mp3)
and what Rob Bell says in his 3 part series called Forgiveness (http://www.marshill.org/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=57_93_40&products_id=513) And also a more recent one he does relating to the sermon on the mount again called forgiveness (http://www.marshill.org/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=57_38&products_id=522).
Ok, that’s not a very helpful comment is it?!
Shane talks about forgiveness being a Gift: for-GIVE-ness and we may forgive before we find any closure or healing, but it is a specific point of letting go and giving something up to the other person.
He goes on to talk about bitterness only destroying you from the inside if you hold on to it.
Rob talks about the forgiveness in Matthew 6:14 being like a 2-way pipe – if we block up our end, we will find it difficult to receive the forgiveness God offers. He also speaks of ‘dropping the jawbone’ – don’t retaliate as that only escalates the situation (see Samson in Judges 14&15 – very entertaining reading ‘adventures in testosterone’).
Rob also covers the ‘forgive and forget’ misnomer – as sometimes forgiveness requires NOT forgetting, some people are toxic and to forget would not help them and it also puts you back in similar danger.
Lastly for this long and complicated post, Rob used the parable of the unmerciful servant (Matt 18:21-35) to explore how God says to us ‘I’m not going to play it by the book unless you decide you want to play it by the book with others (calling in your depts at any cost) and then I’ll treat you in the same way.
Forgiveness is very complex. But by experience, I know that it is freeing, releasing, liberating to practice forgiveness, regardless whether the person you forgive knows you are forgiving them or that they even need forgiveness.
Forgiveness can often be hard but I think it begins with the desire to not take judgement into your own hands but to let God take care of that.
Shayne says:
I thought that scripture was incredibly freeing. In essence Jesus is saying, “Hey…let Me handle the world…you handle you.”
In the heat of the moment though…I really like to “handle” those who have hurt me. But it just ends up causing me a heavier load.
I think if we could learn to remember how burdened down and stressed out we feel when we don’t forgive…that might help us to release the offenders to Jesus.
Beth says:
I think the ONLY was we can forgive others is to acknowledge the depth of our own sin and what God has forgiven us for. I think that’s why God wants us to celebrate the Lord’s supper–to remember how serious our own sin is and what Jesus had to do to pay the price we (I) owe. It is easy for me to gloss over my own sin–to justify it or think I’m not that bad–until I hold myself up against God’s righteous standards. When we can see how fallen and sinful we are, and how God’s grace has broken into our lives despite our own wretchedness, then we are freed up to forgive others.
Kelli says:
When I think about this subject, and the difficulty of forgiving someone who has deeply wronged me, I realize that my motives in tattling (I love that you labeled it exactly as it is – we do tattle) are terribly self-centered. It’s all about me. “Look at me, God. Look how I was wronged. Pity me, Punish them, Make it right…for me.” There is nothing redemptive in that type of thinking and it leads only to bitterness.
I see this in my children when they tattle. They are reacting with childish self-centerdness. They want justice – they want to see whoever wronged them suffer punishment. They are, therefore, delighting in the plight of someone else. It’s so easy for me to see it and deal with it in their hearts. But in my own – it’s very hard. Forgiveness is hard, particularly in cases such as were mentioned above. There is always room for grace, but sometimes it can be tricky. Thanks for giving us all something to think about.
And to Jason who commented earlier, my heart hurts for you and your family. My family has dealt with an emotional abuser in the past and I know how difficult it is to strike the balance between forgiveness and protecting your own. I will pray for you today.
Darla says:
Ya know what’s really hard about not tattling? Just as I think I’ve forgiven, I get tested all over again. It’s like I can’t pass the test once and for all. Sigh.
tracy says:
Yes, Darla..I know exactly what you are saying! This has been the most painful two years of my life…but the growth I can’t even begin to describe. Just when we feel like we can “move on” the wound is opened up again…I envision Jesus cleaing out the wound to heal me in a way I never thougth possible! ugh! not easy though! BUT HE is so good and so amazing…OH HOW I LOVE HIM!
Sara says:
ugh…this is one that used to be SO hard for me…the unforgiveness part that is. I had a moment in college where I was standing in a reality that was unreal…know what I’m sayin’? Anyway, I sought out some Godly counseling and one of the tools my counselor gave me was this: Picture your and the unforgivable one at the foot of the cross…now hear Jesus forgive you, hear him forgive the thief, now try to hear him say he will NOT forgive the person unworthy of your forgiveness….
I did this and was overwhelmed by the fact that I couldn’t. We all deserve forgiveness…and sometimes we have to forgive hour by hour…but this helped me get some perspective on it.
Great post. Thank you.
Matthew W says:
I’m dealing with some forgiveness stuff right now, too. One issue is forgiving my deceased father for making me think that he hated me when I was a kid. The bigger issue is forgiving myself for hating my father and at times *wishing* that he was dead. Like they always say, “be careful what you wish for, because you just might get it.” My father died in 2005 when I was 17. And I can’t quite figure out how to forgive myself for the way I felt about him, treated him, and acted toward him.
Princess Leia says:
I know people tell us all the time that we’re supposed to be “God-centered, not self-centered” (or something similar), but the more I’ve thought about this sort of thing, the more I wonder if that’s really true. It’s probably a matter of semantics, but when God called me overseas, it was for _my_ benefit. Yeah, I probably helped some people along the way, but He did it to get me someplace where I had nothing else to distract me (there’s really no excuse for missing your “quiet time” when you’re practically under house arrest).
I guess everything we do is supposed to be for the glory of God, but more and more I really think the way you do that is by focusing on yourself. Not in a self-aggrandizing way, but in a way that honestly takes a look at one’s faults and works on fixing them. Similarly (as I tell my 3-yr-old frequently), we’re to worry about our _own_ obedience – not that of anyone else (“As much as it depends on _you_, be at peace with everyone”).
Even Aslan says something similar to Lucy in “Prince Caspian” when He leads them to Caspian’s camp. She had seen Him the night before, but hadn’t followed because no one else did.
Having said all that though, I frequently have “talk therapy” sessions with God where we hash through how people have hurt me. Usually these sessions bring up the root of the issue (not just the slight that sparked the most recent hurt). Sometimes He points out where _I_ was wrong in the situation. Sometimes He points out the grudge I’ve been holding onto that’s the real reason that I’m so mad this time. Sometimes He just listens while I cry (or whine, as the case may be), comforts me, and eventually we move on.
I guess I don’t really see that as “tattling” so much as just working through it. Maybe it’s that awareness that your audience (even in your head) is God. Or maybe that’s just one more thing I need to be working on being better about. It can definitely be taken to the extreme if it’s all you ever think about and if your focus stays on how wrong they are and never moves to what can make it right again.
Sorry….rambling….percolating….
Kelly @ Love Well says:
I’ve wrested with this. To me, tattling is much like the sin of the older brother. At least in my own life, I know it stems from resentment, self-righteousness, bitterness and pride.
(Ouch. I just stepped all over my own toes.)
Christian forgiveness means two things to me: One, that my offender is released to God. They no longer owe me anything – an apology, an explanation, a reconciliation. They are completely God’s to do with as He wishes. (Of course, if I’m secretly hoping this means He’ll smash them like a bug, I probably need to dig a little deeper and realize that God could also show-off His mercy and throw a party for the prodigal who repents.)
Second, Christian forgiveness is recognizing the hard but deep truths from the parable of the unforgiving servant (Matt. 18). I might think the offenses committed against me are huge, and that God should intervene if He’s truly just. But if I think my sins are nothing compared to theirs, I am not seeing sin the way a Holy God does. Now that’s humbling.
Amy Savage says:
I echo what Beth said. When my sister was abused by her husband (who she met a Bible College) I had a very hard time dealing with it and forgiving him. He seemed despicable to me. And then it hit me. My sin is as despicable and foul to God as his is. Sin is sin. It all breaks God’s heart. Just because I’m not abusive doesn’t make me better than him. I’m broken too. All of us are. And so I asked God to help me extend the kind of grace to him that I could only hope someone would extend to me if they knew my deep, dark sins. The kind of grace that God has lavished on me in heaping bucketfuls. Extending grace and truly forgiving frees us. Otherwise, we live in bondage to bitterness and anger which eats us alive. And when Jesus has come that we might have life and have it abundantly, it just doesn’t make sense to choose to live in that type of dark place. The Healer of our hearts gives us all we need to forgive if we would only ask Him to help us.
Bill says:
Agreeing with what Beth posted earlier in this thread. Recently reading in the book Holiness by J.C. Ryle (incredible), read this, and it has stayed with me ever since “He who forgives easily, realizes how much he has been forgiven”.
I usually don”t want Gods way, I want my own. Usually is actually most of the time, or pretty much always.
I believe wrestling with forgiveness comes with spiritual maturity, and it’s not a ‘thing’, it’s a command.
Just because you forgive someone though, it does not mean you are going ‘back for more’ of the same way you have been hurt, wronged or treated. Once forgiveness happens, you can pray in a whole new way for them, and for you.
Ultimately, it’s a soul you are dealing with. I don’t want the worst person I know to suffer for eternity because I couldn’t forgive them.
whitney says:
here’s a trick i’ve tried to hang on to for a few years. i flip the script whenever i feel that nasty “i’m so mad at you” feeling. i do it in my head really quickly before it can take root and faster. silly analogy: when someone cuts me off in traffic, i flip the script and say to myself, “i’ve done that to someone else.” even in relationships, if someone is hurting me or my husband, i try to see it from the other side, “well, maybe they feel like i’ve hurt them at some point, also.” or, “i’ve done that same thing to him.” it really has helped the Lord teach me mercy. if you’re shaking your fist at someone, they probably have (or have had) a reason to shake their fist (or someone else has) at you for the same reason – just at a different time. my husband and i say, “practice mercy.”
(obviously this doesn’t help much in situations like child abuse, etc., but in lots of other ways, it really is effective).
whitney says:
OH! i forgot the one thing i wanted to add. when i went on my first plane trip with my mom, i remember her looking at the window with me at the ground below. she said, “do you see all of the trees?” “yes.” “can you tell which one is 100 feet and which one is 10 feet?” “no.” “that’s the way God views sin. all sin is the same in His eyes. one not more than the other. it’s all SIN. the consequences are different.” i think it was her way of keeping me from elevating myself (i was a holier than thou little girl) over others b/c there’s nothing better about me than the least of these. i’ve held that one near and dear. it keeps you from being able to point your finger at the speck when you realize the log in your own eye.
Roy Barbier says:
Maybe I’m missing something. Some here seem to write in terms of some perceived anguish between forgiveness and justice. Now, I may be wrong, but doesn’t the scripture in Luke 13 which Shaun points out mention the fact that “unless you repent, you too will perish”?
It’s my understanding that repentance itself is an undeserved gift from God. If an individual has sinned, and they refuse to acknowledge that sin, then are they forgiven? I’m not suggesting that our forgiveness isn’t something to be offered to those who sin against us (Luke 11:4). What I am suggesting is that it may be perfectly legitimate to forgive someone who has sinned against us as a means of releasing them from our condemnation, even bless them, but separate ourselves from them if they never repent or know what it is that they’ve done to offend us.
Perhaps I’m wrong. I’ve wrestled with some issues of this sort too, but this is the best understanding I can come up with to come to a resolution that lines up with scripture and common sense. I’m open to suggestions.
whitney says:
i agree with you, roy. there is some relationship in the BIble where i remember reading it (i want to say NT – maybe barnabas? it’s driving me nuts) where it says something like, “and they parted (ways)” or something to that effect. like it was okay for them to move on from a future relationship or something? hmm…now i’ll have to dig around and find it to see if it’s what i remember it to be.
Roy Barbier says:
There are several points of scripture which advise us to avoid some, particularly those who cause dissension.
I just think there comes a time in a believers life when they understand that it’s better to release the unrepentant to go his/her own way than to persist in maintaining a corrupt relationship, if that makes any sense. (Luke 6:28)
Mela Kamin says:
Nuts. Having a tough time with this one. I’ve been going through my tattling in my mind for days … planning out what and how I’m going to tell. I’ve been spittin’ mad, because a dear friend was badly betrayed and I feel our church has been errant in their counsel through the situation.
I can’t fathom how this is going unnoticed and worse, how people are turning a blind eye to the behavior.
When we learned of the situation, we took our fellow Christian aside and tried talking to them, which is how we felt it should be handled Biblically. When that didn’t work, we talked to our Pastor. That failed to make a difference and we’re left wondering how to sit by while someone continues the sinful, unlawful behavior.
Yes, I’m upset with the person who wronged by friend, but I’m also mad how the body of Christ has approached & dealt with the issue.
It truthfully makes it hard for me to sit there Sunday mornings – I’m distracted and mad. From someone who didn’t grow up going to church because her parents were burned by several churches and churchgoers, I now see all too clearly how they felt and it both sickens and scares me. I know sin runs rampant from the pauper to the Preacher, but still knowing that, I expected more. I don’t know yet how to reconcile this in my mind or heart.
Mela Kamin says:
I now realize I just tattled on here indirectly – I’m no good at this keep your mouth shut business.
Spencer Barfuss says:
I think it’s always hard to forgive when we place our “right” to be treated fairly above reconciling the relationship. And I believe it’s easier to forgive when we see and know how much God has forgiven us an insurmountable debt that we could not pay him back for. This is what Jesus teaches his disciples in Matthew 18:23-35, and in the very last line of that passage, He says, “So also my heavenly Father will do to every one of you, if you do not forgive your brother from your heart.”
Jesus is the all-time, offense overlooker, and if we are going to follow Him, we must overlook offenses just like he did. Here are some verses that talk about overlooking offenses…
“Good sense makes one slow to anger, and it is his glory to overlook an offense.”
“Hatred stirs up strife, but love covers all offenses.”
“Father, forgive them. For they do not know what they do…”
Thanks for sharing, Shaun. Got your name spelled right this time… 😉
Marie says:
With 4 kids I have had to deal with a great deal of tattling and battled my own amount of mental tattling and frustrations of others. People used to frustrate me and my patience wore thin at times and now I have learned to smile an remember some things learned at a young age and hope that I have taught my kids.
How often to I begin to judge people before realizing that “there, but for the grace of God go I?” I need to realize that they aren’t any more guilty of sinning any more than I am. Maybe I am on the right path now but maybe they will be. Like the parable that Jesus tells about the fig tree. The land owner was going to go cut it down because it had never bared fruit. The gardener said to him to let him tend to it. Maybe with cultivation and fertilization it may bear fruit in the future.
We all needs God’s grace. It is only through God’s grace and our cooperation with that grace will be get–and stay–on that right path. That is why we shouldn’t judge people. We are just as guilty as everyone else is. We can be honest with that person. We can pray for that person. Must of all we should maintain hope because with God’s grace that person may still bare fruit. But we should never judge because, “there, but for the grace of God go I.”
Holly says:
The hiding place talks a lot about forgivness that is hard. Corrie ten Boom and her sister forgive so many people that at the beginning, they thought forgiving them was impossible but through God’s forgivness, they could also forgive.
This is one of my favorite quotes from the book.
“And so I discovered that it is not on out forgivness any more than our goodness that the worlds healing hinges, but on his. When He tells us to love our enemies, He gives, along with the command, the love itself.”
p. 233 The Hiding Place – Corrie ten Boom
Sherri says:
Forgiveness – just last week I was reminding a friend who had just had a big disagreement with her family member, about going to The Table in an unworthy manner (1 Cor. 11). She was struggling and I suggested she visualize standing beside this person who offended her and serving them Communion. If she couldn’t not only take communion with this person, but serve the offender Communion, then she should forgo partaking the elements.
Just 1 idea for the ‘process’ of forgiving someone. Forgive until you can picture yourself serving them Communion with a pure heart…. Just a thought. Which I’m sure I’ll be putting into practice soon….
Happy Geek says:
In my head I re-play the hurts of a thousand small offenses. The one thing that helps (and I don’t always practice what I preach) is every single time I get fussin I tell myself to stop. I say “this is sin.” And I pray for someone else.
It changes my mental frame.
Hollybird says:
I love this post! I’m passionate about forgiveness. I used to think it was because I had so much that I needed to give. No doubt, I’ve been hurt a lot in life. I’m a survivor of childhood sex abuse and a rape at the age of 17. For years, I harbored that kind of anger and hatred that eats away at you, little by little. Ridiculous.
Now I see that I’ve needed forgiveness on my own much more than I ever needed to give it away. I learned this by a simple, yet painfully honest, process.
On a Monday morning, I took a legal pad and began to list all of the things I needed to forgive. I did this for a week, writing down every single thing that came to mind about my past abuse and what it has cost me (it’s been a lot, I’ll say). At the end of the week, I had 3 legal pages front and back, and I felt quite smug, if I’m honest here.
The following Monday, I did the same, except I wrote down for one week, everything that I needed forgiveness for. I was brutally honest. My list was 6 pages, front and back. And it hit me. I will ALWAYS be in NEED of forgiveness, much more than I will ever need to give it away.
Thank you for preaching on this subject. The freedom I have found in being willing to give away forgiveness out of obedience to God has changed every aspect of my life.
I’d love to chat more about it sometime if you’d like. Feel free to email me!
Holly
cattailmama says:
Pray for them. We are commanded to pray for our enemies. Our battle isn’t against flesh and blood….
misty says:
For me…by praying for them. I find that when I pray for someone I forgive them. I have also learned that forgiveness is more for me than it is for them. Forgiving someone who hurt me is healing for my soul. I do not know if God blesses them because of my prayers but I know that He blesses me through those prayers.
Heather U says:
On the topic of forgiveness…there is great book out there called “Unpacking Forgiveness: Biblical Answers for Complex Questions and Deep Wounds” by Chris Brauns. It helped me in dealing with my FIL who began a relationship with another woman 19 yrs his junior (with two teenage boys) a mere two weeks after my MIL passed away, and then married her almost one year to the day of my MIL’s passing.
Shaun Groves says:
I’m definitely going to read this. I have a lot of questions in that area of life/faith. Thanks for the suggestion, Holly.
Any others?
NancyTyler says:
Heather, I’ve been praying for your family.
heather u says:
Thanks Nancy, we can never have to many prayers in that area. He got married this past November so things are still very raw, painful and broken.
Heather U says:
Forgot to share an amazing quote on forgiveness! I have since taped it to the inside of my bathroom medicine cabinet to remind myself daily of it’s truth.
“Forgiveness is an act of faith. By forgiving another, I am trusting that God is a better justice-maker than I am. By forgiving, I release my own right to get even and leave all issues of fairness of God to work out. I leave in God’s hands the scales that must balance justice and mercy.” -Philip Yancey
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