Shaun Groves
“I wanna hand Daddy the cans!!!!” Gresham, age five, screamed yesterday. (Though, to be fair to the kid, it’s hard to tell when he’s screaming and when he’s just talking. He’s got a voice amplification issue of some sort.)
“No, Gresham,” Gabriella, age seven, (aka Mini Mom) insisted. ”I’M handing Daddy the cans. You give me the cans and Penelope gives you the cans like we planned.” (Her sentences are always a bit italics heavy.)
On Wednesdays I’m taking the kids to The Well, a food pantry in our area. Stores and individuals donate food. Our church buys what’s lacking. Volunteers (and their kids) stock the shelves and staff the place. Meals On Wheels and others help distribute beyond the pantry’s property. It’s a collaborative effort. Generosity that soothes the hurts of entire cities, states and nations has to be.
FINDSHELTER.ORG
A few years ago a couple of hurricanes named Rita and Katrina pummeled the Gulf Coast. Ben, who didn’t work for me back then, helped a merciful entrepreneur named Carsie get in touch with me after a concert in North Carolina. Carsie, in the 24 hours after the first hurricane hit, built FindShelter.org. And he asked for my help getting the word out about it. (This was the beginning of the Compassion Bloggers idea, by the way) The site allowed churches willing to board and employ hurricane refugees for one year to enter their contact information. At the same time, Carsie and his team had volunteers in shelters taking down the contact info of refugees looking for a place to relocate. FindShelter.org simply existed to connect the two lists: the families in need with generous churches.
There was a problem though. The biggest list of refugees was not compiled by Carsie’s volunteers but by Mormons. That’s right, a group of Mormons had a list of families in need but no list of churches willing to care for them. The Mormon group wanted to give Carsie and his churches their list – no strings attached.
Problem: Carsie was leaning on the Baptist mission something-or-other for help building the list of churches (Baptist churches) willing to help refugees. And when the boss of that Baptist mission something-or-other found out that some of the refugees (a lot of the refugees) were signed up by a bunch of Mormons? Well, the Baptist guy said if Carsie took that list then he couldn’t have the Baptists list of churches.
The refugees on the list weren’t Mormons – not that that should matter either – but they had been disqualified from receiving assistance by simply having their names written down by Mormon fingers. Lots of Baptist churches willing to help a very small list of families. We were able to help a few people but unable to make the impact we’d hoped for – the kind that was possible.
The result? Today, the Gulf Coast is once again under water. Once again, there are thousands of people trying to find shelter. But this time FindShelter.org isn’t there to match the needy with the generous. FindShelter.org was pretty much undone by one man arguing about who gets to hand Daddy the cans.
IDEAL VERSUS REALITY
The other day I blogged about Obama’s lists and we discussed what things we can and cannot do for ourselves. I didn’t write those words because I disagree or agree with Senator Obama but because his lists have left me torn. I’ve got some thinking to do. I’m torn between my ideals and the reality Obama and that Baptist guy remind me exists today.
Ideally, the church/Church would collaborate across denominational, racial, economic, state and national lines, pool resources and expertise and meet the needs of people in holistic ministry, leaving those in government with a much smaller job description. But realistically, there are too many people shunning cooperation for empire building to believe unity and generosity will ever be the rule in the church/Church and not the exception.
So where do we invest our hope? Who do we demand change and kindness from? I’m not sure anymore.
But I’m not standing still either. I’m thinking things through but that’s no reason to settle into cynicism or apathy. Thankfully I don’t have to have the church-and-state problem figured out entirely in order to give myself entirely to loving the people I’ll meet today. I can stack cans in a food pantry. I can sponsor a child. I can play with the kids in my neighborhood, be a generous friend and neighbor, adopt, recycle, listen, be patient, teach my kids how to stack cans…without fighting…so that someone gets the help they need today.
While some argue in the pantry, what am I doing today to love people?
elijah says:
We invest our hope in Christ – what He did on the cross and by walking out of that tomb, what He is doing everyday in our lives by making us new, and what He will do in the future by righting all wrongs and rectifying all injustice. He is the only true source of hope.
And we demand change and kindness from ourselves. We do the things you and your family are doing with the food pantry, the things the volunteers (like my grandparents) do with Meals On Wheels, the things Carsie tried to do. We remember that we are citizens of the Kingdom of Heaven not members of any denomination or political party, and we live accordingly.
Kyle says:
“Everyone thinks of changing the world. No one thinks of changing himself” -Tolstoy
I think your last sentence is the answer to the whole issue.
pat says:
I found this interesting article on the FOX news site. Please note that the Thanksgiving services were scheduled to be held at a baptist church recreational center and note where they were held after the baptists refused to allow the muslims to pray on baptist property.
A Muslim-led interfaith Thanksgiving service in Austin, Texas, was forced to move to another location at the last minute after a Baptist church objected to non-Christians worshipping on its property.
The Austin Area Interreligious Ministries, the largest interfaith organization in the city, was told last Wednesday that it wouldn’t be allowed to hold Sunday’s annual Thanksgiving celebration at a recreation center belonging to the Hyde Park Baptist Church because the parish has a policy of prohibiting non-Christians from praying on its grounds.
For 23 years, Jews, Muslims, Christians, Hindus, Baha’is and others have been invited to worship together at the Thanksgiving service.
Click here to see photos.
Sunday’s event was the first to be co-hosted by members of the local Muslim community, though they have participated in the service for several years, according to Adeela Gill, president of the Central Texas Muslimaat, a Muslim women’s organization that takes part in the celebration.
Gill said she didn’t know whether the Baptist church’s abrupt about-face was because of the prominent Muslim presence this year.
RelatedPhoto Essays
Interfaith Thanksgiving Service “I hope that they would have made the same decision for any other organization that is different in belief, but I don’t know,” she said. “I’m hoping that this decision does not have to do with the fact that it was Muslims.”
Planning had been in the works since July, according to AAIM Interim Executive Director Simone Talma Flowers, but it crumbled in the 11th hour when the Baptist church told the group to find another venue.
“They notified us four days before to say that we could not have the Thanksgiving service on their property,” said Flowers. “They said they did not realize that we’d have non-Christians at the service.” Church officials told her they thought “interfaith” meant different sects of Christianity.
Hyde Park Baptist Church defended its decision and asked for understanding in a statement it released about the dispute.
“The event was cancelled when Hyde Park Baptist Church became aware via a postcard on Monday afternoon, November 12th, that the event was not a Christian oriented event,” the statement said. “The postcard promised space for Muslim Maghrib prayer and revealed that the event was co-hosted by the Central Texas Muslimaat, the Forum of Muslims for Unity, and the Institute of Interfaith Dialog … The church cannot provide space for the practice of these non-Christian religions on church property.”
Associate Pastor of Administration R. Kent Jennings declined to elaborate further on the matter when reached by telephone.
Gill said she found the church’s statement “shocking” and “blatant” in its repeated references to the Muslim groups in attendance, and believes the explanation implied that Hyde Park’s sudden cancellation was linked to the Muslim community’s involvement.
Hyde Park Baptist Church is not a member of AAIM and has never sent an official church representative to the annual Thanksgiving service in the past, according to Gill.
It was unclear why the church didn’t realize that it would be an interfaith event before last week, or whether its decision was, in fact, related specifically to the Muslim community’s leading role in the service.
Gill said much of Hyde Park’s concern was over some of the actual prayers that would take place on the premises.
“The fact that there was going to be a prayer service caused them concern,” she said. “The space for our prayer afterward, that’s what caused the most amount of alarm. That was influential in making their decision.”
Flowers also couldn’t say whether the church canceled the event on its property because of the prominent Muslim presence.
“It might have just been a really honest error — they just didn’t realize it was non-Christians also,” she said. “I believe that. We respect their decision. If we had known that, we would not have rented the facility.”
Flowers, who is Christian, said she originally tried to convince the church to let the celebration go on as scheduled, since there was little time to find an alternate venue.
But Hyde Park didn’t budge, so the AAIM instead found a Jewish synagogue willing to open its doors for the event, which drew between 1,000 and 1,200 participants.
“I was a little disheartened,” Flowers said. “But the synagogue was very gracious. They accommodated us on every level. This has been a blessing in disguise.”
Members of Hyde Park were invited to the Sunday service at Congregation Beth Israel, she added, but no official representatives attended. Gill said there has been talk that some Hyde Park congregants were disappointed that their church decided not to provide its facilities for the event.
“What I’ve heard is that the congregation was disappointed, especially because many of them do not feel this way,” she said. “There’s a whole community that goes to this church — it’s not their fault.”
The Interreligious Ministries service blended traditions from the Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, Baha’i, Sikh and Buddhist faiths, among others. It began with a procession of leaders of a variety of religions, followed by customary Muslim and Jewish calls to prayer, and a Christian bell choir signaling the start of worship. There were offers of gratitude to God in the Christian, Muslim and Hindu traditions. A Buddhist ritual closed the hour-and-15-minute celebration.
“It was filled with love, it was filled with gratitude and it was filled with hope — hope that we can live and work together,” said Flowers. “It was just beautiful.”
Though the group has had some complaints about its mixing of religious traditions in the past, this year’s last-minute location shuffle was unprecedented.
“I don’t think we’ve ever had a situation where the service has been canceled,” Flowers said. “We are all about bringing people together to have dialogue.”
That dialogue is far from over, as the fallout from the flap continues.
Letters to the church have already been drafted by people who want to express their concerns and opinions, Gill said. Central Texas Muslimaat plans to invite Hyde Park leaders to its center in the hopes of sharing ideas.
“Hopefully they’ll come, learn,” she said. “We’re not trying to change their minds. We’re trying
Veretax says:
One problem with that logic, some churches, Baptists included, see the Mormon church as nothing but a Cult. Some even include Roman Catholics in there as well. I am not an ecumenical. I believe unity has to be based on the truth found in the word of God, not on some feel good idea of wanting to be this great big happy family.
That being said, I’m not sure what to make about the refusal to use the “mormon list”. When Jesus looked onto the crowd he was moved with compassion and told his disciples to pray for labors to be sent into the fields of harvest.
There really are two or three issues here, one is that as Christians we have a duty to reach out to those around us, especially the lost. The question is whether we should do so as our own endeavor or be unified with groups whose beliefs we find contradictory to our own. This really isn’t an issue anyone can decide except on their own though. As my friend Wes used to say a lot, Major on the majors, and not the Minors. However, in this situation you present is working with Mormons a Major or a minor?
Shaun Groves says:
Veretax, it’s minor. If Satan himself knocked on my door and said “Here’s a list of people who need your help” I’d take that list and do what I could to help those people. I don’t care if the list comes from a Mormon or an alien. If the list is legit – and it was – then I’m taking it.
I don’t understand how anyone could question that decision. On what basis?
Veretax says:
The list itself does seem benign. I’m not denying that, and having come from a recent fundamental church, I find their hyper-separatism to be a bit extreme at times. I’m not sure what I would have done in that individual’s shoes. (Pray before making a decision probably.), but in my opinion its impossible to reach the lost if we are not out there trying to meet, greet, and help them, so I don’t entirely understand the thinking on the ‘aid’ being given to one list but not the other.
However, the bible does caution us about false teachers. I believe in one place it even tells us not to welcome such a person into our house. I do think there is a difference between welcoming a mormon for example into my living room, and working as a community to better the community at large.
For instance, I’m an eagle scout, and in my troop I know there were several Roman Catholics, Mormons, Baptist, and some who frankly weren’t very religious at all. That didn’t stop us from performing community service in various ways. I can’t help but feel that there is more to the story you have told us then what is there on the surface. It almost to me seems like this particular Baptist church wanted some kind of glory, recognition or honor for helping these folks. If that is the case, I think I would be hard pressed to agree with their motives because what we do should bring Glory to God, not to ourselves. At least that’s how I see it.
Kent Kingery says:
As a reformed Baptist (love that term!), I would have taken the list. I have deep issues with the Mormon church based solely on beliefs, but I would gladly work right alongside them to bring help and comfort to anyone in need.
Regarding your observation about shunning cooperation for empire building, I’ll simply note that this is true in the non-church/Church world as well…
Kent
Kenyon says:
Not only do these divisions exist along denominational lines I also believe that they exist within a class structure. The megachurch verses the smaller to medium sized church and vice versa. It seems most churches are bent on recreating programs that other churches (both large and small) are already sucessful at simply because reaching out would require the effort of joining someone elses work and “us” not getting the credit we are due.
Sheesh…thanks Shaun…now I’m all worked up!
Andrea says:
Great post. Definitely food for thought.
And I’m so sorry that there were people who needed help and instead of seeing them as hurting people, someone chose to let theology stand in the way. Very sad for me.
Keep the posts coming. I enjoy the way you see the world. I understand it – well, most of the time.
euphrony says:
Shaun, I agree with you on this. People were denied the mercy and love of God because other people had bigger concerns. Pretty hard to excuse.
Veretax, I’m thinking of this as an example. The Baptist mission guy was upset over the idea of working side-by-side with Mormons. (I’m guessing here. Maybe he honestly thought they were all Mormons on the list who did not deserve help – as if that were better.) Do you (does he) contribute to, say, March of Dimes? Or Salvation Army? Or American Cancer Society? Or just about any other public charity, for that matter? If so, then you’ve partnered with Mormons, as well as atheists and a host of other “objectionable” people. Maybe not as directly or publicly, but the end result is the same – helping people hand in hand with people whose ideologies we may vehemently disagree. And how many people have not tossed a coin into the Salvation Army buckets at Christmas? Not many.
It seems somewhat hypocritical to say that I won’t work with you in one place but do so in another, simply because it is done with less thought in one instance. And in any case I can’t help but think of Paul’s advice in Philippians when addressing those who preach the truth, though with improper motives – let em’! What matters is that Christ is preached, and I see the same application here. What matters is that the people in need be treated as neighbors and not as pariahs.
(Not picking on you, Veretax. Just trying to address some of your thoughts.
Veretax says:
No offense taken Euphrony. It’s an issue that ultimately led me to leave the last church I was in. The hyper-legalism, combined with hyper-separatism was hurting me spiritually. I wasn’t growing, and I felt hindered because I was made to feel second class. I wouldn’t be allowed to help with the children’s church, the youth, or sunday school, because I preferred a particular version of the bible over the Old King James. Not that there is anything wrong with it, but it became clear that these people had so sensationalized the KJV that they were viewing many honest translations as nothing but pure evil, and while I believe that some like the NIV for example, may be “dumbed” down or diluted due to the level of english in it, I still believe God can use it as I am living proof of it. The first bible I ever owned was an NIV, and when I was lead to Christ it was out of that same version, so while I don’t choose to use it now due to my finding the NKJV to be much more beautiful literally, that doesn’t mean I’d condemn them, yet this church I once went to cut off funding for an overseas missionary group that spread the gospel via radio, for what reason? Because their editor allowed a quote from an NIV translation in their newsletter. So while I understand a bit why folks feel the way they do, I think we are forgetting the ultimate goal of the Church, that is to preach Jesus in Love, reach the lost, and bring glory to His Holy name.
You are right by the way, we associate with folks every day who are of different backgrounds. Let us not forget, was it in the Gospels? Memory can’t recall, but isn’t it written in the New testament that he who withholds good knowingly is just as guilty of sin as he who breaks the law overtly? That’s my main problem with what happened here, and I thank Shaun for posting it cause this is a trend I’ve been noticing in the last five years or so.