Kate wrote:
I have a friend who is totally against everything that Compassion and World Vision do. Why? Because she’s convinced that music artists get “kickbacks” for every child they manage to get sponsored. Is this true? Can you clear this up to put her mind at ease?
Here’s my answer.
———————–
It hurt when the checks from ASCAP lost digits. It stung when book stores sent my CDs back to the distributor. But the worst thing about Christian radio stations moving from 30 current songs to 12 in 2002, shifting from singer songwriters with metaphors to worship music cover bands, was when promoters lost interest and stopped booking me. There’s no demand for a guy who hasn’t had a “hit” in a couple or three years. So we lowered my asking price. And did it again. And again. And again, until it was just enough that three or four gigs could pay the bills each month – because that’s all the gigs I could get…in a good month. (It’s a good thing we sold that big house huh?)
I didn’t love music anymore by this point in my career. But I was in love with speaking about Compassion International and growing fonder all the time. It was cruel of God, I thought, to take away most of my audience just when I found something I lived to share with them.
About that time my artist relations person from Compassion got in touch. The percentage of people at my shows who sponsored kids was unusually high. She was happy about that. But she wondered if there was any way I could do more shows – to get more kids sponsored. She asked if I was playing so few shows by choice. Of course not, I said, there’s just no demand right now.
I had some real angry talks with God back then. Didn’t he realize how much good I could do if he made me a big soft rock star again? Just one song on the radio and the shows would roll in, the churches would be packed out and loads more kids would be sponsored. I made him promises. I pleaded. And I waited.
I don’t remember if it started with Brian (my booking guy at the time) or my artist rep from Compassion or my manager. But I remember getting an e-mail containing a plan to get more kids sponsored that was endorsed by all three. Here were its points:
1. Ask promoters to buy a hotel room, one meal, and pay for all promotion, sound, technical staff, lighting, and the rental of a keyboard or the tuning of a piano.
2. I would pay for all travel expenses: rental cars, plane tickets, and gas.
3. Compassion would pay me enough to cover my road manager/booking agent and pay myself.
4. The concert would be free to the public.
5. Compassion would be presented, as it always had been, at every show.
All three parties – promoter, artist and Compassion – would share the expenses and the risk of every concert.
I said no. It felt hypocritical, unethical, like stealing from the poor.
Until my artist rep from Compassion changed my mind with a lesson in marketing 101 and a little simple math. Not everyone knows tens of thousands of kids die every day from poverty. Not everyone who knows cares either. Not everyone who cares wants to do something about it. Not everyone who wants to do something about it knows what to do. Not everyone who knows what to do is doing it. Not everyone who is doing it will continue to do so. That’s why Compassion builds web sites, designs and prints pamphlets, produces radio spots, uploads podcasts and releases videos. With only 20% of America’s pastors speaking about poverty, the job of preaching communicating the importance of Jesus’ “Good News to the poor” falls on Compassion’s marketing department. And that costs Compassion money.
But Compassion has made a commitment to its sponsors that a minimum of 80% of their $32 a month will go to caring for sponsored children – not spent on marketing. So every dollar invested in marketing is examined at a few levels to make sure it yields the most benefit for Compassion’s children. One of my concerts, she said, was a great investment.
She explained to me how much it costs to produce a radio ad and get it on the air and how many sponsorships that might yield per dollar spent. How much it costs to run a print ad in a Christian magazine or film a TV commercial and how many sponsorships those marketing efforts might drum up. Magazine ads, radio and TV spots – all of these are interruptions, easily ignored or turned off. But at a concert, the audience is captive and possibly even captivated. Dollar for dollar an artist is one of the best advertisements there is.
Not everyone thinks about this before balking though. A pastor at a huge church in Texas once lectured me about taking money from Compassion. I waited until he was through with his diatribe and then held up the stack of four-color cards laying on his desk – the ones adverting the church’s upcoming “Fall Festival.” “These are good looking cards but I’m more effective than this card because I believe in what I’m advertising and this card doesn’t believe in anything. And I probably won’t be thrown in the trash can.” He let me speak that night and kids got sponsored. And he joked afterward that he should have had me announce the Fall Festival at the concert.
Is there a banner ad anywhere with a 10-20% click-through rate? Is there a mail-out that can do that? A website? A pamphlet? One human being telling his story to another human being is a powerful thing.
So I said yes. I asked you all to book me. You did. I was shocked. And ever since then (November 2006) I’ve played and spoken about 10 times a month – 100 times a year. And more than 3000 kids have been sponsored.
I am not paid a “kickback” for every child sponsored. But there is a number of sponsorships I must get in order for Compassion’s number folks to think I’m a good investment. I don’t know that number. I asked Compassion never to tell me that number. I just talk about what I love every night and whatever happens happens. And what happens is I get many more sponsorships than Compassion wanted from their investment. My audience is astonishingly generous like that.
Now, I still don’t like this arrangement but, short of climbing the radio charts with a remake of “Open The Eyes Of My Heart Lord,” I’ve got no better ideas. If I could get bookings without this arrangement I’d call it off. In fact, we explain to promoters how they’re getting me for free and a few of them (single digits) decide they’d rather pay me than let Compassion pay me. I let them of course. And I still speak just as fervently at those shows for Compassion as I do at all the others.
Simply put, I’m a guy who desperately wants to change the world for as many kids as I can and accepting Compassion‘s help seems to be the best way to do that right now. I hope that changes. And if you have a better way, I’m listening. Seriously. Please. Give me a better way.
Or book me for free by e-mailing Ben today.
Finally, pray for my friends Spence, Brian, Suzie and Stephanie at Compassion and for those who do similar jobs at World Vision, International Justice Mission and other worthwhile non-profits dependent upon spokes people. It’s their very difficult job to discern which investments to make in which representatives. Pray for artists, that they would fall in love with something bigger than themselves and, if they can afford to, that they wouldn’t take a dime for promoting it.
David Hudson says:
As a marketing person, I see the validity of your case.
As a supporter of Compassion, I see the validity of your cause.
As a follower of Christ, I see the validity of your conviction.
You are quite a man Mr. Groves.
RevJeff says:
DANG! I KNEW YOU WERE DIFFERENT…
keith says:
What the market needs now (and what you need to get back on the radio) is the reinvigoration of an older “CCM” classic.
shaunfan says:
Extremely well said Shaun. I’m continually convicted by your passion for your work. I was a fan of yours when you were on the radio, but I’m a bigger fan of you now, especially knowing your heart. I can’t wait to see you again next Friday.
Take care,
Kevin
Tracy says:
Well said, Mr. Groves!
Abbie says:
I kind of duck when I say this in fear of putting it the wrong way, but I will be honest in that I hadn’t heard your music until about a month ago. I was instanly in love….with the words and melody of your songs. My husband even said, “Wow, this is good.” Coming from him, it means a lot. He isn’t a big Christian music fan because a lot of the songs are just redone songs and he says they sound like they are from the 80s. He makes fun of the music I listen to all the time. Through your blogs, music, and videos (yes I feel like a bit of a stalker saying that), I can see that Compassion isn’t just a job, but a passion in you to help these children.
I’ve been lurking for about a month, but felt compelled to give you a pat on the back today!
Thanks for all that you do for Jesus and all his little children.
boomama says:
You are so loved in this house. You have no idea.
steph says:
so glad you said yes!
rachel says:
thanks for this well-spoken answer. as a child sponsor, it means a lot to me to see this kind of transparency (which i have seen over and over again with compassion).
but i would say something else to kate’s friend, too:
even if only 1/2 of your $32 (as opposed to 80%) got to the impoverished children of the world, that would still make a huge difference. and short of flying to africa and handing them a twenty dollar bill yourself, what else can you do? i’ve got news for you: people everywhere are corrupt. (i ain’t gonna ‘put your mind at ease…’ i have my moments of total corruption, and so do you. and stiffing a starving child your superfluous spending money just because you don’t want some artist to get part of it is a pathetic and selfish excuse. because now you’ve got a failsafe reason to keep it all to yourself … because it will NEVER be a perfect system. you won’t stop buying starbucks just because they give money to the democratic party. you won’t stop buying pepsi even though they pay celebrities and movie producers to sell their products.
why do you think people who are in full-time ministry, whose paychecks are provided by the gifts of others, struggle with feeling guilty about where/how/when they spend their paycheck? (speaking from personal experience.) it’s because of this same kind of attitude. it’s because there are people who “give” their money, but they don’t give it AWAY … they don’t entrust it to the Lord, nor to the people who are doing the Lord’s work. it’s an attitude that says, “the money is mine, i should get to say how it’s used,” not an attitude that says, “the money is the Lord’s, and He can use it to accomplish His will however He sees fit … even if i don’t understand.”
i am afraid that my opinions here sound harsh. but if i come across that way, it is only because i am sickened by the rules and attitudes of american consumerism that have infiltrated and crippled the church.
how many children have to die before the global church is refined in faith?
rachel says:
and, incidentally, you and anne jackson are the major reasons why i became a child sponsor. and for as much as that has done for me in my own walk with the Lord, you can absolutely have 20% of my $32.
Linda Sue says:
WTG Rachel – many people hide behind that “the poor will always be with us” – yeah well we can make them a tiny minority instead of a majority can’t we?
Thank you Shaun – I only started reading your blog during the Uganda trip – one of the greatest thrills in our lives has been sponsoring two boys through Compassion – they are growing up and healthy although the food crisis is hitting them too – we got a letter today from Elius and he said he gets an egg and lentils at the project for lunch – he used to get chicken and rice (his favorite meal). BUT he is getting an egg and I praise Jesus and Compassion for that. Keep on keepin’ on Shaun and all the others who are the voice for those precious children and their families.
Shaun Groves says:
I’m not upset with Kate’s friend in the least. I think her question and concern is a great one. In fact, it’s a concern I had for a long time. It really really bugged me that Compassion was paying people who supposedly believed in their ministry to speak for their ministry. So I get where she’s coming from.
My hope is that Kate’s friend is passing on her wealth and time and talent to those who need help – regardless of whether she’s doing so through World Vision or Compassion.
Kate says:
Thanks again, Shaun, for taking the time to address that.
I can assure you she is using her time, money and talent to help those in need. I don’t need to win her over to Compassion or World Vision if God has called her to other ministries. But I do like to set the record straight.
rachel says:
and i, too, on the other hand, am glad that people ask the questions. because it makes the organization accountable. it’s good, though, for us to remember that they are not accountable to US, but to God. and sometimes our pressing questions are in the best interest of the work they do for the Lord, and sometimes our pressing questions are in the ‘best interest’ of our own selfish interests … and on this count, i am definitely speaking from personal experience and conviction.
i only hope we all continue to remember that there are a variety of ministries, but only One Spirit … a variety of Gifts and callings, but only One God.
i obviously don’t know your friend, and i am glad of your witness to her character 😀
Compassion dave says:
“Speechless”
Steve says:
Shaun,
I am glad that there are men like you who do what is best for others along with being able to take care of his family. God is blessing your ministry. People who are in the ministry should be taken care of by fellow Christians. I am thankful for you and your ministry
Noelle says:
Hey Shaun,
I know you probably didn’t intend to, but your message really reminded me that I need to look for God’s answer in things instead of praying for things to be done my way. Thank you for that and for continuing to speak about Compassion.
Steve says:
Great question and great answer. I am glad that Kate’s friend had the boldness to ask this question. I also appreciate the transparency in the answer.
Kimberly says:
OK>>>When are you coming to NY???? I have a bunch of kids I need to bring to hear you!!!!!!!!!!! Blessings as you continue HIS work for your life! Kimberly
mamasboy says:
Even if the artists get a kickback per sponsored kid, who cares? It may call into question whether an individual artist cares about kids more than other products they are paid to pitch, but I think the answer to that would be obvious. Artists don’t talk about kids like other products. They don’t write songs about Catsup. I’m sure there are several of the more successful artists who don’t take money, too.
The important measure of fiscal responsibility for charities is how much of donations gets spent on program expenses. On that measure, both Compassion and World Vision score very well. They don’t have the highest percentage spent on program expenses in their industry, but it is still very, very good.
Anytime someone runs a charity they need to make a decision about how much money gets spent on program expenses and how much goes to sharing about the charity with people who don’t know about it. That is expensive and difficult, especially when dealing with church culture that doesn’t have a large focus on charities they don’t control. In my opinion, Compassion gets the word out about poverty better than any other charity in the industry.
Over 1 million kids per year are helped through Compassion. The industry leader in percent of program expenses sent to the field has less than a third that number. Who has the right approach to helping people? Do you spend less on marketing and as a result help fewer kids or do you spend more on marketing and help more kids? You can’t fault Compassion for choosing to help more kids, especially given that their program expenses are still really high and earn them 4stars from charity navigator and an A grade from the American Institute of Philanthropy.
http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.summary&orgid=4768
http://www.charitywatch.org/toprated.html#childsp
I’ve helped volunteered for numerous organizations from homeless shelters and soup kitchens to pro-life, youth sports and educational groups (and more than one child sponsorship organization). I’ve always been impressed with the quality of marketing materials and training/support that Compassion offers their volunteers. They do a very professional job in outreach, easily the best of any organization I’ve volunteered for. More than that, though, you can tell that the people they employ really believe in what they do. That’s why they help over a million kids a year, more than any other child sponsorship organization.
I’m sorry I’m not as well spoken and brief as D. Hudson up above. That’s why he’s a marketing guy and I’m an engineer.
MB
keith says:
Forget my last comment. You need to cover this right now! Think of the children! The children!
Jessica says:
Shaun,
I have always loved reading your blog, especially because of posts like this. I think what you are doing with Compassion is commendable. You are doing what you can—not for yourself—but for children all over the world who have not only physical needs, but spiritual needs as well.
To speak briefly about the Christian music scene: Christian music has changed so much since 2001-2002, when you first started out. It is hard for any artist to retain popularity past their sophomore album—it is no doubt more challenging for a Christian artist. I think you have done everything that you could with the resources that you had available to you at the time. Personally, I would love for you to continue your musical endeavors, because I think your music is inspirational. You have a lot to say through the written word. (I am sure others would agree.) Have you thought about releasing another record? An EP, perhaps?
What about releasing music through iTunes? Releasing exclusive tracks and/or EPs through iTunes is a popular way to get your music heard. You might want to consider it, if you haven’t already.
Good luck with everything that you do!
–Jessica
BrokenH says:
My wife and I are compelled by what you write. It’s easy to listen to most Christian music and enjoy it, but sometimes Shaun Groves steps on your toes. Alot of Christians don’t want to hear “shake us all loose from our pulpits and pews”, we are far too comfortable in our churches.
My family has sponsored a child for about a year now and hope to add another one soon.
Love God, Love Others, Serve the World
Home Decorations says:
I knew you are the man!
Glasses says:
It’s nice to know that they are still good men living in this planet. Thanks Shaun!
Garden Furniture says:
Glad that you keep track of questions people ask