Shaun Groves
“You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.” ~ Inigo Montoya
Dr. David Tretler is the Dean of Faculty at the National War College in Washington D.C and a former USAF Colonel. He’s an expert on the Middle East – its history, politics, culture and religion.
My children attend the school where Tretler’s sister is the headmaster. She invited him to come teach her students about terrorism and Islam.
Kids have a lot of questions about both. But, like the rest of us, they’re getting most of their answers from non-experts like friends, television and the internet.
When the information we have is incomplete or incorrect, the conclusions we reach and the decisions we make will be too. So the headmaster teaches students to find credible sources of information and to correctly understand what key words really mean.
Parents were also invited to the assembly because, well, don’t grownups need credible sources and correct definitions too?
I left the assembly wanting to share Dr. Tretler’s wisdom with every American. But I’ll share them with my tens of readers here instead. Here’s some of what Dr. Tretler taught us.
Fundamentalism: Fundamentalism is the desire to return to an older and, presumably, purer form of a particular religion. Fundamentalism is found within all world religions. Fundamentalists wish to retrieve something essential to their faith that they believe has been lost over time. Fundamentalism is not inherently or even usually violent.
Radicalism: Radicalism is the use of violence to achieve fundamentalist goals. Radicalism is practiced by a small number of fundamentalists within all major world religions. There have been and still are radical fundamentalist Protestants and Catholics, Buddhists, Hindus, Jews and Muslims.
Terrorism: Targeting civilians with violence (or threats of violence) in order to bring about political or cultural change.
All Muslims are not fundamentalists. All fundamentalists are not radicals. All radicals are not terrorists. All terrorists are not Muslims.
ISIS is a radical fundamentalist Islamic terrorist group. ISIS recruiters often target young Muslims who feel misunderstood and marginalized by society…by us.
Dr. Tretler warned that lumping all Muslims together with radical fundamentalist Islam can create or, at the very least, add credence to those feelings of misunderstanding and marginalization, and make recruitment easier for groups like ISIS..
So there you go. Definitions from a credible source.
Now we can think critically and make better decisions…and better informed Facebook status updates, I pray.
Beth says:
I agree, sort of. Radical Islam is the truest form of Islam. By that I mean that pure, true, followers of Islam and it’s teachings are by definition radical. ISIS is carrying out pure Islamic beliefs. They practice in total what is taught in the Qur’an, the Hadith, Sharia law, etc. There are currently only 6 Imams in the world that true followers of Islam trust to deliver accurately the words of the Qur’an. Those Imams preach exactly what ISIS and other terrorist groups practice. May I be so humble as to recommend reading anything and everything you can by Usama Dakdok. He’s the only one to have ACCURATELY translated the Qur’an into English. A task which has earned him several “fatahs” (death threats). He did this with 7 other scholars, but will never name them because they still live in the Middle East would surely be killed. It’s against Sharia law to translate the Qur’an into any other language. It was written in Arabic of course. But, it was written in the dialect that is only spoken in two countries; Saudi Arabia, Mohammad’s homeland, and Egypt. No other Arab dialect readers and writers are capable of reading it. They rely on their Imams to tell them what it says. The Qur’an says it’s mandated to lie to the infidel; to be submissive and peaceful until the upper hand is gained. Only then, can the truth be told. I could go on for days. Go to thestraightway.org to get tons of accurate information about Islam. Usama comes across as very harsh in his speech. He LOVES Muslim people, but rightly hates the cult of Islam that is damning people to hell by the millions. He shares the truth of Christ with everyone he meets; especially Muslims. CAIR hates him! I’ve heard him speak several times. He knows what he’s talking about and has the facts straight from Islam to back it up. Love the Muslim people. Share the truth of Christ!
Shaun Groves says:
I responded to this comment on Facebook, Beth, but just in case you missed it…
Short answer (short on time today) is that “radical” and “violent” are not the same thing. Radicalism is violence for the purpose of fundamentalism. I think you’re saying Islam (as you understand it) is inherently radical. But I think you mean “violent.” And that’s not the topic of this post but something I’d to learn more about from you when we both have the time such an important conversation deserves.
Jonathan says:
As a Christian, I would not welcome atheists, Muslims, or other non-Christians trying to tell me what is “the truest form” of Christianity, based on their own interpretation of the Bible and/or Christian history. I would want to be given the respect of stating myself what I believe and what I think are correct interpretations of the Bible.
Therefore, based on the Golden Rule, I do not think it is loving or respectful for me, as a non-Muslim, to define for Muslims what the “truest form of Islam” is.
Not concerned about marginalization says:
I am not concerned with Muslims feeling marginalized. Their “holy book” says to kill all infidels, to seek out Jews and slaughter them. They are setting people on fire in cages – hacking people’s heads off on camera and raping anything that moves. There is a time for grace and there is a time to get our collective heads out of the sand and acknowledge evil for what it is and acknowledge that satan uses this particular group of people to steal, kill and destroy. The reason there are no “moderate” muslims standing up and condemning these attacks is because they know what their book says. There may be a few who do, but the majority of them won’t. So, call it what you will- radical, fundamentalist, I don’t care- Islam is NOT the “religion” of peace. It’s an intolerant world political system that is taking over and killing anything that stands in its way.
Mark says:
To a degree all three definitions most likely could apply to all the worlds major religions. To an overwhelming degree one religion is implementing the use of Terrorism as defined to a much larger degree than all the others. When the fundamentalist, radicals and yes evan terrorists associated with most religions begin to act beyond the tolerance of the majority of its followers those followers are generally quick to disassociate or reject that group with a larger movement to squelch these actions. More so in the event of a segment implementing violence.
In the case of Islam as a whole this just simply is not the case. I’m certain that many reasons for this exists but it does cause one to wonder why?
Shaun Groves says:
I don’t know by what means exactly “Islam as a whole” could publicly all at once reject ISIS. But many individual Muslims and numerous groups of Muslims around the world certainly have publicly criticized and disavowed radical Islam and ISIS specifically as incongruent with Islam as they understand and practice it. There’s a movement online using the hashtag #notinmyname, for example, in which thousands of Muslims around the world are denouncing ISIS and radical Islam.
I think it’s more accurate to say the American media has not adequately reported (or the American public has not adequately shared on Facebook) the many Muslim organizations and leaders who have disavowed radical Islam.
For a short list of 10 examples of public statements made by Muslim clerics and other leaders (covered by international news media) go here: http://www.beliefnet.com/columnists/commonwordcommonlord/2014/08/think-muslims-havent-condemned-isis-think-again.html
Mark says:
Shaun, thank you for opening the dialog. To clarify just a bit when I commented about “Islam as a whole” I was thinking more along the lines of the majority of Muslims world wide who do not practice terrorism. I would think we can all agree that proportionally more Muslim believers practice terrorism than do the believers of any major religion at this point in time. My comments are not limited to ISIS only. They are the big player at this point, but many such groups exist. I am aware that many organizations and individuals do in fact speak out against the practice. My point is that if this problem of Terrorism was a big enough blemish on the religion of Islam then these individuals and organizations would be putting forth a more unified effort to fight it. If leaders of Islam world wide recognize that violent practices are not in fact an acceptable practice and or teaching of Islam from its scriptures, it would stand to reason that they would want to shout it from the roof tops. In this day in age they have the means and capability to find quite a large roof top. I could be wrong, but I feel fairly confident that if enough of these individuals who hold the highest of positions in Islam asked for the floor of the U.N. in New York City to publicly stand together to renounce the acts of violence acociated with their religion the doors would be wide open and every news organization would be clambering to get in. The fact is at this point the rest of us have no choice but to defend against it.
Shaun Groves says:
It’s no gathering at the UN but this is a very respected Muslim leader making two very aggressive clear public denouncements…
CAIR’s Executive Director Nihad Awad after Paris attacks ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Zi2pNgS96w ) and after Orlando shootings ( http://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2016/06/12/orlando-shootings-muslim-leader.cnn/video/playlists/orlando-nightclub-shooting/ )
Excerpts from the statement after Orlando…
“[ISIS] How would you stand before God and answer for your crimes against innocent people… You do not speak for us. You are an aberration. You are outlaws… They do not speak for our faith… 1.7 billion people are united in rejecting their extremism, their interpretation, and their violence.”
Mark says:
Shaun thanks for the links. Good stuff! We can only pray that those words have a deep impact. I think we can both agree that the problem of violence being used in Islam is world wide, and nothing short of a world wide effort to eliminate it will be needed. I wish to see it resolved within Islam before it truly reaches a level of Islam verse World. Fortunately we serve a God who is much bigger than this world!!!!
Mark says:
Do you agree with the Definition that you posted pertaining to Radicalism? I certainly agree that violence can by used by radicals and certainly is, but going by that definition alone you would have to conclude that all Islamic Radicals use violence or any religious radical for that matter. I would have to say that is not true. One could certainly be a radical in any religion and not be violent. In the case of Islam we certainly see violence being used by Muslims on other Muslims because one group feels the other is not Muslim enough. By the posted definition that would be Radicalism. We also see Muslins use violence on all others simply for not being Muslims or they do not respect a certain culture or they don’t recognize the faith of others and want change to take place in that society to fit their ideology. That certainly falls under the posted definition of Terrorism. My point is that both prominently exist in Islam and the definitions for radicalism and terrorism as stated in your post strongly apply to a notable number of Muslims. One would have to conclude that by actions done in the name of Allah by people claiming to be Muslims that both radicals and terrorists exist in Islam, and by these definitions not much difference exists between them.
Sandy says:
Yes, very well said, Shaun. It’s about time we began to consider where the facts lie instead of scaremongering knee-jerk prejudice. This is also true: not all fundamentalists are Muslim. There are plenty of Christian fundamentalists, including those who like to say that theirs is the only true way to heaven and that anyone outside is damned. And there are plenty of lost and unstable people who are drawn to one form of extremism or other and then use it as an excuse for violence. So sad. We must pray for humility and wisdom in these difficult days.
Amy Littrell says:
Well said Sandy and Shaun. I think humility and wisdom are in short supply, and we must stop and pray with a broken and humble heart that God will guide our words and actions that we might be a light in the darkness and perhaps a small part of the solution instead of the problem. I have drafted and erased so many responses to this post, and I just did it again, so I’ll stop trying to sound wise or insightful and will just say thank you for addressing some of the issues that need to be addressed in this complex and often emotional discussion.
Mark says:
Sandy, with all due respect the idea of Christianity being the only way to heaven is a statement taken from the words of Christ Himself. That is a core truth of the Christian faith. As Christians when we do not proclaim that truth in love we are acting outside the word of God. The difference is we are not instructed in our scripture to kill anyone who does not believe. Rather we are instructed to love them. True some have killed in the name of Christ some in defense of Christ. Very few examples of this take place today in Christianity.
Not the case in Islam.
I do agree we need to pray for humility and wisdom. Indeed each one of them is of God.
Mark says:
Sandy in rereading your post I think you are referring to Christians who claim that their form or denomination of Christianity is the only way and all other Christians are damned. If so I apologize.
Jonathan says:
This is not stated quite right:
“All Muslims are not fundamentalists. All fundamentalists are not radicals. All radicals are not terrorists. All terrorists are not Muslims.”
It should be:
“Not all Muslims are fundamentalists. Not all fundamentalists are radicals. Not all radicals are terrorists. Not all terrorists are Muslims.”