Shaun GrovesWhen I was eighteen I read Carpe Diem, Seize The Day
And yes, it even ruined Christmas for me.
(HT:TKS)
19 comments on “Ruined Christmas”
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When I was eighteen I read Carpe Diem, Seize The Day
And yes, it even ruined Christmas for me.
(HT:TKS)
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You must be logged in to post a comment.
noelle says:
I just read your entry “I killed Santa” and then this. I honestly wished my parents would have raised me this way. Your kids are blessed!
Grovesfan says:
While we do give our kids presents at Christimas and it’s never anything they truly NEED (they already have salvation, food, clothing and shelter; the rest is “gravy.”), but things they do desire. Part of the reason is because we want them to have nice things. It is an expression of our love for and to them because Christ gave us the perfect gift of Christmas, Himself. I do get very frustrated at all the commercialism and materialism that surrounds this season like no other. I don’t think however that giving gifts to those we love is wrong. I don’t think you are trying to say it is either.
Beth
Shaun Groves says:
I don’t think it’s wrong. But I don’t know how far to take the idea of simplicity either.
Being involved with Compassion International has warped me. I now think of everything in terms of how many kids it is – how many kids it can save for one month.
A skateboard = one child
$100 more on a a monthly mortgage = three kids every month
One large Coke a day = one child
X-BOX 360 = fifteen kids
It messes with me. I have no idea where “the line” is though. It seems like progress just to realize there is one. But I don’t want to get lazy and think knowing is good enough.
Grovesfan says:
I’m right there with ya Shaun. Compassion has “warped” my thinking in the same way. I’m glad it has though because it’s a good warped. We began sponsoring our first child in March this year. We’re going to add another one this March. I want to wait for your concert here to choose our next child. It’s so hard to choose though because they’re all so beautiful and so very needy. Maybe I’ll let you and Brian do the choosing; or perhaps the kids can decide.
Beth
Matt says:
Thanks for sharing that, Shaun. It kind of relates to an unsuccessful crusade I’m on in my family. What do I really need? I’ve been trying to get people to save the world in some way or another with at least part of the money they would otherwise spend on me. It’s not working…yet. In fact, we have an early batch of stuff coming this weekend.
Think the Salvation Army could use an iPod?!?
Shawn B says:
I just wanted to say, “Shaun I really enjoyed this post” it made me think…alot, and that is what I like. A challenge to think for myself, to think outside the box for a minute. As this is your blog “Mr. I’m a Blogger” I am not always challenged to think for myself, usually it’s me going, so that’s what Shaun thinks…
Andrew Pflueger says:
Ok, not saying I believe this, but I’m going to play devil’s advocate. For some, this is the most important holiday of the year. I know many people who make their living because of Christmas. If it was not for the Christmas holiday and the “consumerism” they would not be able to make a living, which would not allow them to give to their church or to organizations such as Compassion International. These are business owners who sell things at the mall or at Christmas shows, etc. Because they do most of their business at Christmas, the rest of the year they donate their time to missions and church functions. They can do this because the “freedom” provided to them the rest of the year.
Capitalism, as many negatives as there are, is still the best system in the world. It has allowed America and Americans to be successful, which in turn has allowed us to help other people in the world. We must remember, most of these “3rd” world countries have been poor most of history. I don’t know for sure, but I would imagine that more aid and assistance is given to these countries than has ever been given before. Poverty is not a new problem in the world. It has always been there, and as Christ says in Mark 14:7 that we will always have poor with us.
Due to our abundance, we have been able to help many of those countries. Capitalism, good or bad, has been the vehicle to take us to the place of abundance. Never in history has a socialistic, or communistic society worked and been able to take care of it’s own people, much less any one else in the world.
However, America is CONSTANTLY giving money, support, aid, medicine, food, and even people to other “less fortunate” countries. This has been largely due to capitalism.
So, one of the biggest times of the year is Christmas, and it drives our capitalistic society. Good? Evil? Necessary Evil? Possibly, and while it is overdone, things could be worse.
Erin says:
So I just found your blog, and I was going to say that I’m a huge fan, but if that were the case, wouldn’t I have found this blog a lot sooner? So I’ll just say that now that I’m engaged I’ve been thinking a lot more about how I’ll deal with the myth of Santa and what (if any) role Santa and gift giving will have in Christmas. I think you’re right in saying that it’s a tough line to discern.
Did you know that Samaritan’s Purse has a gift catalog that allows you to purchase things like a dairy goat or a week’s supply of food for an orphan in honor of someone? That sure seems better than giving the people on your “list” a gift that will soon be collecting dust on the coffee table. It’s also made me think more about what my “stuff” costs in terms of the needs of others. A month’s worth of coffee could buy a small town in Africa a goat. How cool is that?
tk says:
Dude. That is good.
Ben Bryan says:
To go further with the point Andrew Flueger brought up about Capitalism, let me just say that I am all for stopping all this consumeristic, self-absorbed obsession, but I must insist that consumerism is not unique to, nor caused by capitalism. Selfishness is part of the corruption of human nature that each of us is born into. No system of government can fix that. Any way that the government is organized will be ruined by selfishness that is out of control. The beauty of capitalism is that it allows some selfishness to not be as destructive, as in, say communism, where a little selfishness goes a long way being destructive of the government. But, contrary to Marxist myths (which are more part of the American subconscious than we seem to realize), a healthy capitalism is not all about selfishness. Sure, it makes one person’s selfishness another person’s gain, but the most healthy capitalism comes not when men produce things to fill their lusts or to beat the next guy, but to be a productive and useful human being. In the end, a healthy capitalism depends on healthy people. The problem is systemic, but is has nothing to do with capitalism, but with individual souls. So when you are disgusted the next time you see a mall crawling with people out to fill their nearest base urges, don’t lament the shortcomings of capitalism, rather, remember the shortcomings of our souls.
Shaun Groves says:
“ Selfishness is part of the corruption of human nature that each of us is born into.”
Absolutely.
“a healthy capitalism is not all about selfishness.”
Actually, it is, according to Adam Smith whose writings greatly influenced the building of our country’s economic system. He said that it a capitalistic society thrives to the degree that it’s citizens are selfish. It’s in Wealth Of Nations. I’ll find the exact quote – which I’ve bored everyone here with a few times before – and post it again for you.
But, yea, capitalism isn’t the boogie man. We are.
Shaun Groves says:
Great discussion, btw. Thanks for making me think through all this some more.
Brody Harper says:
Ben Bryan says:
Shaun, the Smith quote to which I expect you might to be referring is:
“It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker, that we can expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own interest.”
And to clarify, by “selfishness” I did not so much mean self interest, but an out of control decadent sort of self interest. Self-interest is not inherently bad. Jesus says “love your neighbor as yourself,” not “stop loving yourself and that will make you love your neighbor.” And self-love, so long as love of God and of others has come first, is no sin. On the other hand, if self-love is not put after love of God and others, it is really little more than self abuse which gives our sin nature some sort of masochistic pleasure, which is exactly the sort of behavior we see around us (and sadly often participate in) during the holidays.
This discussion also inspired me to post on my blog on the topic to elaborate a bit on my thoughts here, so if you’re interested check out The Conversation.
Shaun Groves says:
I don’t think, from memory of it all, that Smith was referring to a self-love of any kind you, me, or Jesus would tolerate. From memory – and mine is bad – I recall it being exactly the kind of self interest you say it isn’t. I guess we should read it for ourselves…
But you point is a good one. We aren’t to hate ourselves but to consider others before ourselves – and my theory is that if every American did that our economy would at the very least slow and could possibly quiet to a trickle. I can’t prove that of course and I’m just a musician by training so what do i know – but it’s my blog and I can make up economic theory if I want to.
; )
Andrew Pflueger says:
But why have the economy slow? What good does that do anyone? Except give more people an excuse to blame the government for their problems and try and go on welfare.
Back to the Christmas issue, personally, I love to give gifts to people. I like putting the thought into each person, think what they would like, how they could use it, and how it could benefit them. Basically, it is my way of making a difference in someone’s life. You probably feel this way about music. It is a way to impact someone. Now when I give at Christmas, and get that, “oh my gosh, how could you think I would like that” look, it makes me not want to get them anything ever again (and most times I don’t) but that doesn’t mean that everyone I ever get anything for is like that or should never get anything again. Do you think the music industry should just slow down and stop because there are people out there who are too self absorbed to like your songs? That would not do anyone good. Maybe we should just shut down Christian music cause there are too many people benefiting financially from something supposed to be holy and celebrating Jesus.
It seems to me the issue here is not Christmas, but people. You have appropriatly said that people need to “love others more than themselves” but let’s not slam the one holiday that at least in theory still promotes that.
Shawn B says:
Hey Andrew I just wanted to let you in on a little secret, there is no such thing as “christian music” there is music made by christian’s, so let’s not compare apples with oranges. Shaun I just want to say, stay “positive and encouraging”.
Andrew Pflueger says:
And yet it continues to be marketed that way. And all the artists on a “Christian” label continue to allow their music to be promoted and supported that way. Not really seeing Jeremy Camp, David Crowder, and even our own Shaun Groves being churned out on our Mix or JackFM station or any of the top 40. Haven’t seen any “Christian” artists on Leno or Letterman lately. Why not? Is it the label just not spending the marketing dollars to get into these arenas? The music itself (notes and chords) are not “christian”, however, the subject matter does make a difference. No matter how much you claim there is no “Christian” music, when I go to the CD store, and go to look for Shaun Groves, I bet I will find it in the bin that has the big sign…Christian above it. That is why I used the phrase Christian music. I was describing the industry and organization known as Christian music.
And it wasn’t comparing apples with oranges. It was a valid analogy.
Shawn B says:
What is funny about that the Andrew is that they “christian” artists who do play on Leno or Letterman are the same people being slammed by “christian music” for not being “christian” enough, IE switchfoot, P.O.D., Flyleaf, Plum, Lifehouse…and the list goes on and on, all of which you can find outside the Gospel/Contemerary Christian music bin, and yes I have actually seen all those bands on one of the two shows. That is a whole other arguement in itself, but lets remember they are still christians, brothers and sisters of ours. The Afters in particular have been slammed for letting MTV use their song for a show.
So if your would still like to hold that view feel free, I still don’t think there is “Christian music”, only music made by christian’s.
By the way you don’t have to go to the CD store to find a Shaun Groves CD in the Gospel/Contemperary Christian bin, there is pretty cool website call shaungroves.com. Hey isn’t that word of mouth?