Shaun Groves
The experts talked about injury reports from training camp. We marked through player names on our fantasy football wish lists. And Gresham wished.
“I wish we could draft cheerleaders,” he said.
He added a wide receiver’s name to bottom of his page.
“How would they earn points?” I asked, marking through the name of a tight end with a lacerated spleen.
“I have ideas,” he answered.
Me too.
It was 2001. I saw her conniving but mistook it for kindness. As I signed autographs she stood at the back of the line insisting on going last, letting fan after fan cut in front of her. “No, you go ahead. I’m not in a hurry.”
I sat at a table on the convention floor where Christian Bookseller’s Association members mixed with artists, authors and vendors of every faith-related tchotchke imaginable. She worked for a Christian bookstore chain and she was gorgeous.
My handler – a marketing guy from my record label – wandered off just as the line dwindled to one.
No one beside me to overhear her. No one behind her to cut her short.
I signed her CD. She wrote her name and number across her room key, handed it to me and offered a respite from the convention bustle. “I know how hard it is to be on all day,” she said. “So, if you want a quiet dinner away from the crowds, just let me know.”
I wasn’t certain what she was up to…but I had ideas.
SHe complimented me. She understood me. Does she actually…want…me?
A couple friends of mine have had affairs. And both have been treated badly by some Christians in the wake of their sin.
While Jesus was full of both grace and truth, His followers are sometimes filled with one or the other. There is a way to compromise neither – to love both God and people.
I think it begins with remembering my own bad ideas.
Me too.
And the grace I’ve been given.
I tossed the room key in the trash can and called Becky. I told her what had happened and that it surprised me how good it had felt to be wanted. And through the phone came grace.
Followed by truth. “You need someone with you out there.”
We hired a road manager so I’d never be alone again with my ideas.
I know better. I’m no better.
Amy says:
Not one of us is any better.
Sandi says:
And, the minute we think we are, well, it’s all down hill from there. 🙂
DanaSue says:
I truly believe that there are many terrible things I haven’t done because God’s grace, and ONLY God’s grace, has kept me from the opportunity.
Lindsay says:
Any input or advice on how you met your son’s bad ideas with grace and truth? I’ll admit it: I’m terrified to be the mother of a son. I can imagine what’s running through my daughter’s mind, and I have some (humble) ideas of how to approach those issues as she grows and matures. But my boy? Foreign. Territory.
Shaun Groves says:
There’s a great book called The Chicken’s Guide To Talking Turkey About Sex. Better practical advice in there than I can possibly give you in the comments of this here blog post.
I won’t betray my boy by telling what was said, but there was a conversation. Not all that deep, but one more drop in the bucket that I hope will eventually be full of respect for women.
Kit says:
our sons are the same age but seem totally different 😉
I also was going to ask you for some advice on how to talk to a boy this age about what’s coming. I’ve been encouraging my husband to be bringing some things up but he sees our son as young and innocent still (well, he is– but perhaps his peers are not).
Shaun Groves says:
Kit, one of the great lessons from that book I mentioned is that the sex conversation happens after years of open conversation about body parts, kissing, movies, etc etc etc. The goal isn’t to have the sex talk, but to build a relationship with kids in which they know they can talk about anything. And I suck at this, but I got better after reading that book.
Lindsay says:
Thank you for the book suggestion! I will look that up. We’ve been open with our kids about the correct terms for body parts, and (at this point) nothing is off limits. But they’re 5 and 3, so I’m fully aware that this portion of the journey is bound to get more and more interesting and challenging! 🙂
amy says:
Just chiming in with another “Thanks!” for the book recommendation. I think we parents need as much help as possible with this topic.
With everything, really, but especially with this topic.
Kit says:
Thank you. Yes, I know such advice already “in theory” but putting it into practice is easier said than done. And my husband may or may not be on the same page with that. So we will check into that book, thanks so much!
Matthew (FzxGkJssFrk) says:
Ditto on the book recommendation. We’ll be checking it out.
Brad says:
Wow Shaun. Is there anything you *won’t* share? :^) I’ve been there. My wife never worries about me though because I am so awkward with women that it’s a miracle we even got married. Having said that, I still would never want to go on the road alone. Like Amy said…
Shaun Groves says:
There’s a lot I won’t share, Brad.
And you know, Brad, one of the biggest epiphanies I’ve had about women came from my brilliant wife. Anything can be attractive. Especially if it’s funny. ; )
Seriously, awkward can be cute. Pasty and skinny can be attractive if it’s on a stage and speaking with confidence too.
To protect my marriage I’ve had to stop thinking like a man on this issue. No matter how bad I think I look or how unlikeable I think I’m behaving, some woman somewhere could disagree. Turns out, they’re not as shallow as we are. ; )
Brad says:
“they’re not as shallow as we are.” LOL! Yep. And to be clear, I agree. I try to follow the Billy Graham rule and never put myself in a position where I am alone with another woman. I guess I was just pointing out my wife’s total non-concern which I find to be funny…and humbling. Couldn’t she get just a *little* jealous sometimes! :^) Appreciate your transparency. This type of thing needs to so be dealt with realistically instead of religiously.
Crystal @ Serving Joyfully says:
I just had to LOL, because I have one of those husbands! lol…although we’re BOTH kinda awkward, and I always say that it’s a miracle we got married.
Kit says:
So first you told us not to compare our husbands to you, but now I’m also gonna wonder about comparing myself to your wife! ha ha! Not sure how I would’ve responded in such a situation, but probably in my heart it wouldn’t be the most gracious. But anyway, thanks for another excellent, we-all-can-relate-to-this blog post!
beth lehman says:
when i hear the words in this song, i’m brought to tears… i’m certainly no better. grace is for me, too.
Amanda says:
What do you do when the “know better” is in the rear view mirror and the “room key” didn’t make it into the trash? And full disclosure would destroy what’s left.
Shaun Groves says:
Amanda, if it were me I’d talk to someone wiser than me – someone who knows me and my family.
For me, that would be my father, brother-in-law, my pastor & friend Andy, my buddy Ty, my friends who’ve made the same mistake, my counselor. Praying you have someone like that to talk to – someone to give you equal parts grace and truth.
Kelly @ Love Well says:
If I can butt in, Amanda, I’ve dealt with this a lot in the last few years, and I can assure you: Full disclosure will never destroy what’s left. There is no relationship without complete honesty. Secrets destroy what’s left, not repentance. Praying for you, sister. It’s hard, but God is there.
krisyoursis says:
I have to agree with Kelly here. Full disclosure can be hard, but it gives the Father of Lies a good kick in the gut.
Tara says:
Thanks. Great post.
Stephania says:
Its nice to know we are not alone in temptation-I wish more ppl would talk about how sin is a part of thier life. Sitting in church I hear how sin is bad and we need to repent and try to live like jesus..well jesus had temtations..and he had doubts..but they dont talk about the struggles they have in thier daily lives. To hear about it, helps me not to feel like such a failure when I do sin. I often think how can God love me and still want me day after day, some days its hour after hour..I am say oh God I am sorry- oops..sorry God, I am trying..He showed me using my kids..No matter how many times an hour I have to tell them(there are 7 of them) hey are you supposed to hit/say that/ watch that…ect. no matter how many times I have to correct them..I still love them and want them..and God still loves me and wants me. Thanks for sharing. I ment you years ago- at Alive, you were so tired! You sang a few songs and messed up- you performed at like 11pm..I introduced myself and told you I used one of your songs to dance to..and you offered to let me dance on the stage while you sang..I freaked out lol and didnt..oh how I wish I would have!! I wonder if me being obiedant and dancing would have blessed someone…
Stephania~
Jessica says:
“A couple friends of mine have had affairs. And both have been treated badly by some Christians in the wake of their sin.”
So often the Christian community lacks a support system for the adulterer.
Melissa Jones says:
I think much of the Christian community lacks a support system for pretty much anyone who admits to or is caught in sin. So many of us are concerned with _looking_ Christ-like, that we don’t know what to do with someone who admits that they’re not (yet) Christ-like in a certain specific way even if (and sometimes especially if) they are truly repentant. This is especially true if their behavior falls under the category of a “bad” sin (sexual or financial, usually, but depends on the group).
the Iowa Expat says:
Well said Melissa!
Zoë says:
I wrote earlier on my blog about the temptation to hate. We’re not supposed to say that we hate someone, are we, as Christians?
Thank you for being honest about the realities of temptation.
Your Becky is a real gem 🙂
Amanda says:
Thank you for this… I’m the one who was shown grace in my marriage just this week, and realized but by God’s grace and protection I could’ve headed down a very slippery slope. I am no better.
Melissa Jones says:
Grace and truth. I think I err too far on the “truth” side too often. (rhetorical question here:) Does that make me a “resounding gong or a clanging cymbal?” (not so rhetorical:) Or is it more loving to speak truth while lacking grace than it is to stay quiet?
Shaun Groves says:
Are there degrees of love?
WendyBrz says:
“are there degrees of love?” What an incredible question. I want to repeat that to myself, and often. Thank you for the post, and for that comment.
Melissa Jones says:
I don’t know. Aren’t there? I love my husband and kids differently than I do my friends. And I have close friends that I would be more “truthful” with than others (both in sharing my own vulnerabilities and in addressing any vulnerabilities I see in their lives).
Maybe it’s that I’ve given grace (and truth) for years and have been ignored, so now the truth part is louder and my humanness makes giving grace harder.
When truth is ignored, how long do you extend grace (_not_ talking about a marriage here)? It’s not a matter of forgiveness, although I recognize I need to do more of that as well.
Kari says:
How much grace is extended to you from Jesus? How many hours or days of extending grace to others would cancel the debt? Rhetorical question… and please know that I’m not judging or criticizing you, Melissa, just sharing with you the train of thought that I have to chug along every single day in order to continue to extend grace to my own kids when I feel like surely I’ve “been nice” long enough. And I often fail – thanks to my own pride and selfishness…the repeated surfacing of which should really humble me more than it does.
Melissa Jones says:
Kari, I get what you’re saying and don’t at all feel judged by your words, but as I said in my comment, this isn’t a matter of _forgiveness_ which is what is given without limit by Jesus (and there is nothing I could ever do that would equal that). At what point do I walk away from (in my case) a group that I’ve invested a lot of time and energy into when it’s been made abundantly clear that a) they don’t care about me or people like me, and b) they see no need to live up to the ideals set forth by the larger group? Even though both of these things have been pointed out to them many times, and grace has been extended for many years? At what point do I say, “this isn’t worth my time and emotional energy anymore?” I will absolutely fulfill the commitment I have made to the group….but do I stay beyond that?
I understand that I’m no better (my understanding of what Shawn means by “grace”). I’m human with my blind spots and failings and sins, just like the rest of the people in this group. But how long do I stay in a group where truth is ignored in favor of convenience?
Jolanthe says:
As always, I love your openess and honesty with your readers. That song had me bawling the other day…and now gives even more to think on. Thanks. 🙂
Christine says:
This is such an important thing to talk about, and Christians need to talk about it more. Not just when it comes to dealing with adultery, but with other ideas in our culture that Christians struggle with addressing truthfully and gracefully, myself included. I am certainly no better at it than anyone else.
I admire your willingness to open up your life in such a way that your audiences can learn from the ways that Christ influences it. Your post brings to mind a difficult conversation I had a few weeks back, a conversation I’ve replayed more than once in my head and I’ve come up with so many other things I could have said that would have demonstrated not just the truth of my opinion but the grace of Jesus too. Guess where I landed more heavily? Your post’s title made me think – “Meeting bad ideas with Grace and Truth”…what about ideas that aren’t always thought to be bad ideas? Not everyone, of course, but I would guess that a majority of people, regardless of their political or religious affiliation, could find consensus in the idea that adultery is bad. Not so much with ideas like abortion and gay marriage. Get to those squirmy subjects and the first argument is usually whether one or the other is a good idea or bad, never mind approaching them with grace or truth.
I think that’s where a lot of us get hung up and it’s why I enjoy reading you so much Shaun, because however committed you may be to the biblical truth of an issue, you are unwilling to compromise the requisite grace when dealing with a sticky subject, any sticky subject. That’s where the real challenge of following Jesus rests, I think, in wrestling with both truth and grace. The hard part is not espousing as persuasively and articulately as possible one polarizing truth in the face of another and neither is it in extending as much grace as possible even in the face of unbiblical choices. The real challenge is in throwing them both together and coming out of it as Jesus would have. I can’t do that without him and I know that’s where I get hung up more often than I like to admit, regardless of how convinced I am that one without the other is deeply lacking. Thanks for sharing.
Gina Martin says:
As a Bible study leader for a group of women – and as a high school teacher/role model for teenagers – I try my best to be as transparent as possible without causing another to stumble. I remember thinking that some of my leaders and the people I looked up to were so much “better” than me – that I was just a screw-up. I think it’s terribly important that the people who look to me as a source of spiritual information realize that I’m just as fallen as they are. I struggle. I have sin in my life that I battle on a daily basis, and I often don’t win. I have to fall at the foot of the cross and confess my wrong, even though I know that God doesn’t see it because of Christ’s blood. I have to die daily. If they know that about me, then they realize that they, too, can fall at the foot of the cross, and that forgiveness and justification is theirs, too.
Vicki says:
You had at least two good ideas, in that situation, Shaun:
1) Toss the room key–and you did.
2) Call Becky immediately, and lay it out–and you did.
Becky had a good idea, too. But she extended the grace, first! Good for her, and good for you.
Of course, you’re no better. Neither am I. I learned that more than 30 years ago, when I earned the moniker, “other woman,” after my divorce. Truth: Satan will exploit any weakness, in any person, anytime. Grace: God forgives sin. Period.
Have you notice that Grace is also true?
Shaun Groves says:
Wow, Vicki. That’s one powerful story your life has become. Thank you for telling it to us.
Vicki says:
Sitting here with tears threatening, I am. Even such a brief disclosure always opens the possibility of judgment and rejection. Thank you for grace!
Brad says:
Reading all this makes me think about the Celebrate Recovery group that we lead worship for once a month. The first time we led for this group it struck me how much it felt like we were really having “church” as opposed to just going through the motions. The required openness and having a group of people who freely admit their sin but sincerely want to move on from it, is refreshing. I never considered myself a candidate for CR but have been struck by the fact that we are all recovering sinners. The goal really needs to be to carry one another along until we all make it across the finish line. Such a different perspective from when I was first saved. Still learning.
Zoë says:
Celebrate Recovery taught me that it doesn’t matter whether I have been broken by the actions of someone else, or broken as a result of my own sin. I was there because I had been so broken by abuse that there was nothing left of me any more. It was a *revelation* to learn that God’s grace, extended to me, was exactly the same as the grace extended to my alcoholic/drug addict/sex addict friends. I learned not to judge.
I personally think everyone could benefit from at least trying CR. I wouldn’t be here without it. I’d have given up a long time ago. And even if you don’t need it, you (not you personally, anyone) can learn about brokenness and about the grace of a God who can take the life of someone like me, which was utterly, utterly broken, and give me wings 🙂
Kacie says:
And what of when your friends that have made that mistake decide it wasn’t a mistake, and when there is grace offered, they refuse it from their spouse and friends and church, and simply leave?
How I hate the idea of our dear friend looking back and thinking he was “treated badly” when he had an affair, because we couldn’t endorse the affair or him walking away from his marriage. I still feel at a loss.
Vicki says:
Kacie, what of that, you ask. My answer is simply to continue to pray for that person. Pray that she or he didn’t really slam the door shut, on the way out. Pray that the blindness/denial will be revealed in the light of God’s truth, shone in your friend’s heart by the Holy Spirit–who did, after all, go with your friend.
God is faithful. He does not give up on us! He will not give up on your friend. The trick for us is not to do that, ourselves. God bless your loving heart!
laura says:
A very good post and so true. Something that entered my mind as I read this was that as Christians we put different sins on different levels in how we react to them and those who commit them. In GOD’s eyes SIN is SIN. Its not my place to judge anyone but to love them..
dd says:
Here is a song by the very talented Phil Keaggy, to make you stop and think.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_b3g4_Si1P8&sns=em
Karen says:
In this past year I have watched my brother destroy his family because he chose ‘poorly’. He has rejected any grace that was extended to him and listened only to that which helped him justify his actions.
It has made me realize again that we are all just one bad decision away from destruction. Because of that, I pray daily over my hubby and 3 sons as they head out in to the ‘market place’ each and every day.
Vicki says:
Karen, don’t forget to pray over your brother, too!
I am sure you do continue to pray for him, but as you were writing, your mind was on your husband and sons. I just thought I would encourage you not to give up your brother as finally lost. Bless you!
Cara says:
Thanks for keeping it real.
I appreciate you and your blog.
Sarah Baker says:
I understand completely. The only thing “good” about temptation is that it reminds me of what we are saved from. I think I was in my late 20s before I realized that what God saved me from on the cross was myself. I spent years thinking I was such a good girl and then God allowed me to see what I’m capable of. Good for you for realizing it, before it was too late and good for Becky for not condemning you for being human and for offering you wisdom and unconditional support. You’re both rich beyond measure.
Sara McNutt says:
Wow, so, so good. We need more people to be real like this. None of us are above anything and we’re spiritually blind and proud if we think we are.
I’m posting this to FB…
Melissa says:
My mom had an affair and for a long time I resented and judged her. In my teenage eyes it seemed, selfish, irresponsible and sinful. It was all those things, but so is my sin… Now that I am married and in ministry, I see how easily the lie can be bought that what we have isnt good enough as that over there. I am no better. The interesting thing is, when you finally forgive and love people with the same grace God loves you with, you heal. When you realize you are one bad choice away from there, the forgiveness comes easier.
Benjamin Johnson says:
I think we often misuse “grace.” Our pastor explains it this way, mercy is really the term for not giving everyone what they deserve. Grace is the ability to change and do good rather than evil.
I know we need to extend mercy to others, but sometimes the graceful thing to do is to “hand this man over to Satan, so that the sinful nature may be destroyed and his spirit saved on the day of the Lord.”
Our churches our now so accepting of divorce and remarriage. It all becomes about showing mercy to the fallen, while the social acceptance encourages others to slip in the same way. Meanwhile children are chased from the faith while we just want to make sure that the adulterers are accepted.
I don’t have all the answers. But for the grace of God, there go I. You’re a good man Shaun. Thank-you for making the right choice and encouraging others to do the same.
Jenn says:
This is great Shaun. Your example reminds me of that saying, “you can’t stop a bird from flying over your head, but you can stop it from building a nest in your hair.”
Several years ago an intern at our church was arrested for sexually abusing middle school kids in our youth group. What he did was horrible and inexcusable, but I did always wonder if things could have been different if that young man had had a safe place to share his brokenness, his struggles and his temptations before his thoughts led to actions.
I pray that the church becomes a place where people can share their darkest temptations and struggles in a safe place, where grace and truth can be shared *before* things get to a place where it’s nearly impossible to give grace.
Zoë says:
That’s a very brave thing to say. And as an adult who was a victim of childhood sexual abuse, I agree. But one would also have to know that some would choose not to share their temptations, and some would share their temptations, yet do it anyway.
It may well be that the reason the intern wanted to be doing that job was because he knew he could there be a wolf in sheep’s clothing. There is something about the manipulative, self-serving nature of the paedophile which is particularly horrible. The two paedophiles I have had the misfortune to know were not just sinful, but evil. It was a whole different order of magnitude. But I still agree. It would have to be done with great wisdom, as well as great grace.
Jenn says:
Zoe, you are right. I am so sorry that you suffered abuse. I hesitated to even share that example because I do want to be careful not to paint the abuser as a victim. This man was completely responsible for his actions, regardless of what he had been through in his past.
Wisdom is essential- it’s one thing to counsel a friend through thoughts of adultery; it’s quite another to deal with the hard questions of legality, reporting potential abuse and above all, protecting children.
Kris says:
God bless you for your openness. More and more grace….
Yours and Becky’s story is beautiful.
Keep living it!
Katie Axelson says:
Wow. I’ve intentionally been the last one in line. But not like that! I’ve also rescued artists from zealous fans. But not like that!
I have a whole new respect for you guys who travel and deal with people for a living.
Thank you for your transparency and commitment to Becky.
Katie
Jennifer says:
I appreciate this so much. My husband has recently been traveling more with work. His company has even put him in the position where he has to travel with a female co-worker. Fortunately, the women he has traveled with have respected him and never put him in a compromising position.
Our pastor will text him when he travels to just “check in”. That might be a suggestion for guys who travel, have an accountability partner who knows when you are traveling and will reach out to you while on the trip. I also try to send my husband off well and welcome him home well if you get my drift.
Rena Gunther says:
“I know better. I’m no better.”
This is such a powerful post!!! THANK YOU!
Kristina Marie says:
I’ve had close friends devastated by adultery and tempted by online relationships that went too far. So true that none of us are better. Satan knows how to appeal to that prideful part of us that wants to be wanted and admired. He expertly attempts to mask God’s Truths but the truth is we are already perfectly loved by Him and that is enough. If you are unhappy in your marriage and tempted by Satan, turn your back as fast as possible so that you are facing Jesus again. Pray, give it to him. No man or woman can ever fulfill all your needs but God can. Wounds are so hard to heal but His grace is sufficient. Good job Shaun and Becky! Really impressed with her graceful response. Thanks for sharing.
Kelly @ Love Well says:
Wisdom is knowing that we are no better. None of us. And honestly, I think the more we recognize this, the more we know grace.
Beautiful post, Shaun. I love your wife.
Michelle ~ Blogging from the Boonies says:
Oooh, timely. A message I needed to hear.
I have a friend who recently walked away from her marriage. It is HARD for me to even look at her, because 27 years ago I was a child left in the wake when my Dad walked away. I guess it is so easy for me to take it personally.
Your words make sense to me, it is the putting it into action that will probably be more difficult. Good golly, my sin is just as deplorable.
Julie says:
Wisdom. Thanks.
Erica says:
Inspiring blog and information! Keep up the great stuff…