Shaun Groves
It’s been five years(ish) since my label closed its doors. Five years living a few miles outside of Nashville but a million miles from the Christian music industry in many ways.
A lot has changed in that industry in a short time.
Now that I’m on the brink of recording and releasing my first studio album in five years, well, I figured it was time to go back to school and relearn the Christian music industry.
Today I had the first of many meetings with people at the top of the industry five years ago – to learn more about how things have changed, how they’ve stayed the same, and discern if there’s a place for me in the industry today.
The expert I had lunch with strongly believes most artists don’t need a label now. Even when I threw out the name of a label I think is well worth being part of, he said I was wrong. He essentially argued that while there are still plenty of Christians who love music written about or because of faith, the labels haven’t figured out how to consistently get new music to them. A short list of problems making the job of labels hard to impossible:
- Radio stations aren’t playing many artists and what gets played isn’t getting the bump in sales that radio play used to generate. He and I don’t know why.
- A-level artists used to take smaller artists out on the road as openers (for a hefty price) but no more. Now the A-level guys go out together. It’s the only way to fill seats.
- Many physical retailers have stopped carrying music or have greatly reduced the size of that department.
- There are no major Christian music media outlets – no dominant music magazine and no major industry promoter on-line either.
Record deals, it’s argued, were well worth what an artist gave up to sign them ten years ago when these problems didn’t exist to the extent they do now. Signing a contract meant you had a good shot at radio play, touring with a drawing artist, and having your CD stocked in stores music lovers shop.
Not so anymore.
Yet, my friend informed me, many labels are now offering artists “360 deals” that give the label even more of an artist’s career to manage. “We did a mediocre job with the little you trusted us with before; why don’t you give us all of it now?”
In defense of labels, they don’t see it that way, and I see where they’re coming from. At their best these new 360 deals are offering services to artists – management, publishing, merchandising, tour support and production all under one roof. With these new deals labels can serve the artist in every dimension of their career in hopes of a better outcome than before.
But my friend says no deal is still the best deal for most. Especially when you consider that there were weeks in 2010 when there were as many independent artists on the radio charts as signed ones. And an artist can distribute their music on-line through iTunes and the like and get it in stores without a label’s help. And an artist with a few friends in cyber places (that’s you, dear readers) can have a longer reach than any Christian music magazine ever has.
Hmmm. Lots to consider after my first day back in class.
Michelle ~ Blogging from the Boonies says:
Shaun, I am sorry to say that our favorite (well, only) Christian radio station doesn’t ever play your music. You may remember being interviewed at Kingdom Bound and they asked you, “Tell us who you are and what you do!”
I’d love to help you get some airplay when the album comes out, but I am not really sure how to go about it Would it help if I nagged, um…well, called and asked them to play your music?
Shaun Groves says:
Not really, Michelle, but I do appreciate the enthusiasm and willingness to help out. The process for selecting songs isn’t as simple as that. For good reason.
But I’ll be sure and let you know if that changes ; )
Laura says:
Never posted here before, but this got me wondering. How *do* the radio stations choose what they are going to play?
Lindsay says:
Glad to hear this, since I’m heading down this path this year!!
JessicaB says:
I don’t even like most of the music that gets played on my local christian station. So I go all secular in the kitchen!
Rivkamaryann says:
I’m excited to hear you are making new music!! 😀
I have a couple theories about the reasons Christian music isn’t selling as well… the first theory being that an amazing number of Christians steal music just as much as non-Christians, via downloading illegally and stuff like that. I see it happen all the time, and they usually think I’m crazy for not doing it too.
People probably hear and love the new music that gets put out. So they get it. In whatever free way possible. Then they share it with their friends. So forth. They don’t care how it affects the artist. All that matters is making THEMSELVES happy. The world is full of selfishness.
Another theory, as far as A-level bands going out together, is that people are not only selfish, they are impatient too. They don’t want to sit and listen to someone they’ve never heard of before… Something in America teaches that it is the American way to run and never rest, to do everything in the fastest way possible, every second MUST be filled with something “important.” Forget the simple life. Forget slowing down to enjoy the scenery or to hear a new artist’s music. “Give us the usual and the familiar, ‘cos we have things to do!”
Know what I’m saying?
Shaun Groves says:
Some folks think stealing is on the decline and I think they’re right. Too much of a hassle to find what you want. Too many bad quality files out there to be downloaded. Too many viruses attached. Nowhere near as easy as Amazon and iTunes. Piracy will always be around in the form of people sharing mp3s but it’s not the giant threat to the business it once was.
Deb says:
I listen to satellite radio in the car (The Message on Sirius/XM), streaming internet radio in the house (KLove generally), or iTunes compiled from cd purchases & downloads.
I hear one (1) song by you on satellite radio – and I’m pretty sure it’s one of your older ones (Welcome Home) and can’t remember anything of yours on KLove (though they are pretty limited in what they play I think).
Not sure why this is the case… your music has such heart and an honest faith message.
Keep walking the path… God is using you in so many ways!
Blessings on the journey~
Shaun Groves says:
I haven’t released a single in years. It’s not radio’s fault I’m not on the airwaves anymore. It’s mine.
Mela Kamin says:
When I went into the studio in ’09, I didn’t know any of this – had no experience, had never been to Nashville, didn’t know the industry or how it all worked (still don’t). I was still under the naive impression that my story, my church, my friends and my persistence would get me where I wanted to be. Five trips to Nashville in a 4-month period proved exhilarating & exhausting. Great songs, collaboration & moments came out of that experience and I wouldn’t trade it. But, since then, my heart has changed for why I made the music – more purpose now instead of a pride-filled start.
Indieheaven has been helpful to me as an indie, as well as friendships with other musicians. Mike Westendorf invited me to open a few times and he’s a great mentor to me. As you know, bloggers are awesome and my music has gotten into many hands because of their generosity and willingness to talk about it.
I’m still amazed I get to go speak & sing anywhere – whether it’s a benefit concert, a MOPS group at a local church or a girls’ retreat. I find the more I learn about how hard it is, even for you seasoned musicians, the more grateful I am for every opportunity I get as a 30-something Mom of 3 living in Minnesota.
If I knew then what I know now, I probably would’ve slowed down the process, included others in it like you’re doing and not rushed just to get the CD done … because of my self-imposed deadline to get it finished & start paying off the hefty investment.
Ann Voskamp says:
Your CD is one of my daughter’s favorites…
Thank you.
Alan Johnston says:
My listening habits and interests have changed so so much in about the same time frame as you are referencing. While I know that getting a song played on radio can be a huge boon for sales and publicity and getting the message out, etc, honestly, I can hardly stand to listen to the radio anymore, sacred or secular…it bores me to tears for the most part, and very rarely do i hear a song that just blows me away simply from hearing it on the radio. What interests me musically today isn’t anywhere near what did a few years ago. It’s all over the map, in a sense, but it’s very much not the easy to define tastes I used to have, and it’s a lot less ‘CCM’ than it used to be as well.
Music that moves me lately, for the most part anyways, has less of a clearly definable K-Love/AIR-1/CCM/Doves bent to it. Most of it still at least would loosely fall under the label of Christian to some degree, I suppose, but it’s vastly different than it used to be, and I can’t even clearly explain it.
I have known a few people inside the industry, and have heard a lot of interesting stories good and bad alike. I know this path is a little scary for you after a few years off and at a little older age, but I also know God has given you a heart and a passion and a talent that is different than most, and that if He has led you to this point, He will use what He has given you and it will reach who is to be reached, whether labels, the industry, radio, etc, ever come near it.
Shaun Groves says:
Thanks for the kind words, Alan. But I’m not scared. What’s scary is following a successful record! Following a five year break is easy – clearly, I have nothing to follow ; ). And I know better today who I am and why I do what I do than I did five years ago. That’s incredibly freeing.
Paul Mitchell says:
Is the only way into major retailers through a label? What about streaming services like Rhapsody? I know I do 100% of my CD buying on Amazon, and a great majority of my listening is done through Rhapsody. It would be a shame if by saying “no” to a label you were locked out of big markets or additional revenue streams.
dubdynomite says:
There are several services available to artists to get their music into the online stores and streaming services with only a modest investment. One of the most popular ones right now is TuneCore.
Shaun Groves says:
iTunes and the like are easy to get on. I put a few songs on them not long ago as an experiment – just to kick the tires and see how it all works. Works great.
Streaming services are a harder nut to crack. Still working on that one.
Paul Mitchell says:
Shaun, I listen to your earlier albums semi-regularly on Rhapsody, do you still get compensated? I always wonder how defunct labels manage royalties in situations like that.
christa says:
hi, shaun. yes, i’ve been in class, too, and heard the same things. another thing to consider is the great freedom of remaining indie – freedom from pressure to write singles, for one thing. freedom to plan your schedule in a way that protects & serves your family without feeling obligated to the big investor. the biggest thing the label can offer – from my perspective – is some greater amount of marketing/promo assistance ($) and credibility from the p.o.v. of many consumers & venues…at least this is what we’ve found. people still like to hear that an artist is “signed” – some sort of official stamp of approval? however…it’s not the only source of credibility, and you certainly have plenty to draw from. if i were voting, 🙂 I’d vote you stay on the indie side of the fence. you inspire. thank you.
cnw
Ann Voskamp says:
I love how you make music, Christa.
Everywhere.
And credibility?
Your accomplishments and accolades and associations speak volumes.
Just thank you. Your music has changed me.
All’s grace,
Ann
cshell says:
It seems to me that you need to decide your target market, what you want to portray as an artist, and do you mind being labeled a “sell out” 🙂
Are there not any “huge” Christian artists that have gone on their own and started their own label? Or does it not matter that it’s labeled “christian” and the music industry is the music industry…christian or not.
This stuff intrigues me to say the least, would love to know your thoughts and maybe keep us updated as you walk down that road.
My son, 11 years old, is headed down the road of musician. I can see it, he is very talented for his age and already is playing in high-school worship bands.
Trying to find out everything I can now, so i can help him make wise choices in the future.
Shaun Groves says:
I was on the label started by Michael W. Smith. But he didn’t sign himself to it ; )
So, yes and no.
Angie says:
Thanks for the insiders look-always an eye opener!
Our local station still plays Welcome Home sometimes and in general plays a wider range of artist/songs than KLOVE, so maybe we’ll hear you here in KC.
dubdynomite says:
Radio is becoming pretty irrelevant in this new music marketplace. I rarely, if ever, listen to music from broadcast radio, especially ‘Christian’ radio.
None of the leads I got for new music this past year came from radio play. Most of them came from my social media connections, some from ‘internet radio’ services like Pandora.
I’ve seen some social media pushes that have put albums into the top 10 in the specific iTunes album category, and into the top 100 overall. Radio play alone doesn’t do that anymore, at least for Christian music. And the hot rotations that all Radio stations do now would only serve to make me so sick of a song that I would never want to buy it.
Artists used to do radio tours. I think it may be more effective to do ‘Blog tours’ now. There is little to no cost investment in that sort of internet promotion (unless you provide some free copies to give away). It’s worked great for books, why not for music?
Shaun Groves says:
I don’t think radio is irrelevant. It has meaning to those listening. There are just a lot of people labels want to sell music to who are NOT listening. And those that are listening aren’t buying what they’re hearing at the same rate they once did. And there’s the rub.
Katie says:
Maybe they’re not buying it because they can hear it every fifteen seconds on the radio.
Oops. Was that my outside voice?
Beth says:
Katie,
I agree with your comment completely! I listen to KLove because it’s one of three Christian stations I can get in my car and the other two are FULL of commercials. I honestly like the air personalities on KLove, but the music selection SUCKS! I listen exclusively in my car on the way to/from taking the kids to school and then going to/from work. Each ride is less than 30 minutes total. They occur at three different times each day and I can hear the SAME song on at least two of those drives each day! It’s ridiculous. I’ve commented on this to them too many times to count, to no avail. I NEVER listen on a long trip. I save my iPod or CDs for that.
Beth says:
It’s interesting, because it seems like the Christian publishing industry is a bit of mirror to the music business- the tide is turning from writers getting signed on to major publishers, and more writers are self-publishing or publishing on demand. Writers are having to get savvy and learn how to market themselves, how to use the tide of social media, etc. to build their own platforms. It seems the formulas are shifting, and we’re all trying to figure it out. What held in yesterday isn’t holding today. Personally, I find that hopeful, and it seems the world is opening up through the internet, etc. for more people to read good words and hear good music- the audience is wider with the web, but some of the artists/writers platforms smaller. But I beg to assert this means more people are getting reached by truth. It’s a shift, and it will be fun to see how God moves creatively in His people to get the art out there and how things are shifting and shaking. Thanks for sharing your observations with us- as a writer, I find your observations encouraging. Many, many blessings on your record, Shawn. May God continue to bless you and your family as you have been a standard of truth and a revolutionary eye-opener to so many of us to see poverty and a life laid down for it. Thank You!
Marla Taviano says:
My husband started a new job as Director of Digital Presence at a Christian radio station here in Columbus, OH back in March (he designed websites for churches/ministries on his own before that).
The formula they have for the music they play DRIVES HIM NUTS. He gets why they do it (kind of) but HATES that they’re not giving new music/artists a chance. And he REALLY hates it when they throw in Michael W. Smith’s “Friends” into the rotation. 🙂
Anyway. I think you should go on your own (i.e. with all your online friends).
Shaun Groves says:
Packing up the dreams God planted…
Katie says:
As a fan of Christian music, some of the information you’ve posted confirms that sad and frustrating truth I’ve noticed (lack of availability, airplay, and opening acts). I can imagine it would be very discouraging as an artist, too. The encouragment to continue independently (or Mom-blogger dependently) is exciting, too. It means the whole industry is undergoing huge changes. Despite with my Lutheran instincts tell me, change can be good.
Could the economy play a role in why the situation is what it is?
Katie
Shaun Groves says:
Yep. Not to bore you but the economic downturn after 9/11 changed radio. Which killed the singer songwriter for a few years. But all thats changing again.
Melissa Cable says:
Get yourself to some of the bigger Christian colleges, and places like Kanakuk and your set. If it catches there, you are set.
Kelli says:
St. Louis has an amazing Christian radio station. Seriously. They are wonderful and they have a real ministry. In fact, they recently did a day long drive for Compassion. The goal was to see 700 children sponsored in one day. They reached over 1,000. One of my good friends is a DJ there so I would love to talk with her about your music. And because of your Compassion connection and they’re heart for Compassion I bet we could get an interview and maybe a concert planned. They average over 250,000 listeners a week so you know…that’s something. I want to help you get your music out!
Shaun Groves says:
Wow, so good to hear something positive from someone about their local radio station. Seriously. Thanks for the public pat on their back.
Kelli says:
Well in general I used to be pretty skeptical aboutbChristian radio for many of the reasons listed by others, but there is something different about the station here. They are passionate about getting the message of Christ out through music. They are a ministry, not a business and they are reaping great bless ins for their faithfulness. They are fully listener supported and St. Louis has stepped up to the plate giving over 2 million dollars to fund a new signal for them.. This means no commercials, lots of great music and so many opportunities for those in charge to pour into the lives of those in our community. I can’t say enough good about them. I think it’s the most unique Christian radio station I’ve ever heard!
Megan @ Faith Like Mustard says:
I think you should cover some old songs in weird ways, make a YouTube video, then sit around and wait for someone to sign you to sing in a car commercial. Worked for Pomplamoose. 😉
(And that is sarcasm, in case you can’t tell by the use of emoticons.) 🙂
Megan @ Faith Like Mustard says:
And can I just add…I don’t want to see another Hyundai commercial for a looooong time.
Kelli says:
Of course I don’t know what goes in to the decisions on what music to play on a radio station, but what I meant is I would love to do what I could to help get your music played here in St. Louis. 🙂
Adam says:
I wrote a long message…it was lost…suffice to say, I am going to sum it up…
-I don’t listen to radio much because I feel it is biased to the artist they like.
-Grassroots music publication is on the rise.
-I feel like you will do well because of your following and what you stand for.
-I am excited to hear what you have come up with.
-I would love to help anyway I can.
That is the short version…Shaun, I love the new shirt, and I would love to help out in getting the word out about your new album.
Liz says:
As other individuals who’ve commented have pointed out, sales are not generated by radio play anymore. This rings true for both secular and Christian music. Radiohead, a band that’s been around since the late ’90s and only charted once with “Creep,” is one of the biggest bands in the world, and this is not only because of file sharing and torrenting, but because of their willingness to release it by their own means. Their most recent album, In Rainbows, was groundbreaking because anyone could pay any amount they felt the album was worth. You could even get it for free.
Quite simply, a label, major or otherwise, does not regulate exposure anymore. I realize that most Christian radio stations are controlled by bigger organizations and conglomerates (just as secular stations are usually controlled by Clear Channel), and that independents are scarce unless one lives by a specifically Christian college. But the internet has proven to be the most significant resource in music distribution in the last twenty years – anyone can record with Garageband or Logic studio programs, build a website, release it for free or $10 or whatever. Someone could discover you just from looking at this site or Wikipedia or Last.fm or any other database with your name and discography. It’s all about the DIY, which has lead to the popularization of indie rock in the secular world, and that spirit is going to stay around as long as there remains a ready means of creating, producing, and distributing.
Stuart Rind says:
Shaun,
From the limited time I was blessed to see you work, I formed the opinion that you are “brilliant” and in tune to something that perhaps the “old music business” often stiffled in Christian artists.
I see a passion in you for something much bigger and a courage in you to be a transforming force in this new era of the business.
So I anticipate that the path and journey before you will be hugely blessed, and those you serve- the poor, the oppressed, the lost, and the hurting will be touched by the Love of God in your faithful service to Him…to His glory…and you will continue to inspire and motivate us to join with you. 🙂
ellen read says:
Have you considered working with the Square Peg Alliance? Andrew Peterson, Andy Gullahorn, Ben Shive, Randy Goodgame? They are working outside the system in many ways. (I’m sure you already know this!)
Kathy says:
Sean, I am also a listener and fan of the Christian radio station in St.Louis. I also know Kelli who commented earlier about trying to help with getting your new music on the air here (she is a friend and neighbor of my sister’s). I also know another “DJ” from the radio station who is the Children’s Ministry Director at the church I attend. I am also a new fan of yours since following your involvement and journeys with other blog writers like Ann V., Angie S. and Amanda J. on Compassion trips. LOVED the song you wrote in Guatemela (sp?) and sang for Ann while you were there … was that “Come Down Here”??
I also want to help if I can!!
Happy Heart says:
Hey Shaun! God knows your name and that is all you need. I really admire your integrity and love for Jesus!
PS: Have your read the book “Between A Rock and a Hard Place” by Dr Tony Evans. Easy read and very inspiring!
Keep shining!
shayne Welch says:
I want to hear people sing directly to God. A lot of times, those are the songs that help me give voice to the worship that’s trying to get out of my spirit.
Praise and worship music like that isn’t often played on contemporary christian radio. At least, not from what I’ve heard. Does that mean that the radio stations are doing a bad job? Nope. It just means that they don’t often cater to my taste in music. I listen to artists who write very raw, personal lyrics like yourself, or Rita Springer and Jason Upton. There’s a little indie band from here in Knoxville called United Pursuit Band who recorded a song called “Running In Circles” that just rips me apart and puts me on my face when I hear it.
My final thought? Make the music God gave you and let God worry about how to get it out there. Sorry for the long comment. Just putting my 57 cents worth in.
Marisa Lykins says:
Shaun, whats happened in Christian radio is something we discussed ourselves each day while Love89 was still local at least several times a month. What I loved about teh way we were: that we offered a 2 hour show each week high lighting local and regional artists, had a larger playlist that most, and gave indies a turn in it all. Bought out by Klove/Air1 now the play list here is obviously much shorter with no room for regional/local/or hardly any indie artists… with 650 frequencies across the country I can safely say whats at least playing a small part 🙂
rachel says:
I haven’t read the other comments so perhaps I am repeating what others have said. Just wanted to add that while my husband and I generally do not like KLOVE (waaay too cheesy) I have found lots of good artists through Pandora. I never would have found these artists had it not been for Pandora. Many are artists that others haven’t heard of. I think most of our current playlist comes from artists we discovered through Pandora. Maybe that’s an option?
Shaun Groves says:
It’s very very hard for an indie artist to be played on Pandora. But I’m gonna try ; )
Jim Logue says:
On my current Christian music internet podcast, about 99.9% of the artists are indie artists. A few of them do full-time ministries, but most do it on a part-time basis. I hear from the artists how creative they need to be to get their music out there, but I think as an indie artist, you do need to be more creative and have to work at it. But the results are probably better these days.
And from a radio view, I find doing my own indie show works better, too. I’m not locked in to a radio station’s requirements on who, what, and how much to play. I get to do that on my own. With the Internet radio, maybe we can get more people to do shows like that to give artists more airplay.
Kaye says:
So thankful to see your record WILL BE MADE!!! Excited for you and excited to see what God will do through your great music!
Blessings always,
Kaye
Matthew 21:22