Shaun Groves
John Piper says God “designs” depression and sends it into the depressed person in order to discipline them. Spurgeon, another brilliant and reformed Baptist, wrote about God’s sovereignty over his many bouts with physical and mental illness…
It would be a very sharp and trying experience to me to think that I have an affliction which God never sent me, that the bitter cup was never filled by his hand, that my trials were never measured out by him, nor sent to me by his arrangement of their weight and quantity.
Other intelligent devout thinkers, like Richard Foster, author of Celebration of Disciplines, imply that God knows about but does not engineer our afflictions. Instead, God allows them for some greater good as God took down his “hedge of protection” around Job and allowed Satan to test Job’s devotion to God.
Still others say God does not allow our pain, but it is purely an attack from Satan that God walks with us through and makes the best of.
In times of intense suffering, I’ve demanded answers. I’ve shouted at God, stomped my feet, banged the floor with my fists, tears swelling my eyes, and begged that he give an account for the “thorn in my flesh.” How could a good Father send or allow or be ignorant of pain in his beloved child’s life?
The apostle Paul answers in part and redirects my energy from questioning God to thanking him.
7To keep me from becoming conceited because of these surpassingly great revelations, there was given me a thorn in my flesh, a messenger of Satan, to torment me. 8Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me. 9But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ’s power may rest on me. 10That is why, for Christ’s sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong. 2 Corinthians 12:7-10
Why might I be suffering? Paul gives two reasons. 1) In verse 7 Paul says his suffering was “given” to him to prevent conceit. I might be suffering for my own good, to develop Christ’s character in me. In Paul’s case, to keep him from becoming proud, to give him reputational amnesia, to make him more dependent on God. 2) At the end of verse 7 Paul says he’s suffering because Satan wants to torture him. He says his “thorn” is a “messenger” of Satan. Literally, it is an “angel” or “one who is sent” by Satan to “torment” him, or “beat [him] with a fist” or “torture” him.
Who gives these “thorns”? Again, Paul says clearly that the suffering he experienced was a subject of Satan, Satan’s messenger, Satan’s angel, sent by Satan. But, why would Satan want to prevent conceit in Paul? It doesn’t make sense that Satan would want to make Paul more like Christ. So, again, we have a paradoxical answer that isn’t as clean as the ones I’ve received from the theologians and authors I respect and have turned to for answers.
Paul sees his infirmity as being both sent by Satan and used by God for great good, to build Paul’s humility. Paul didn’t care to clarify how exactly this partnership between Satan’s torture and God’s good worked. Instead, Paul spent his words on emphasizing his gratitude to God for his suffering.
Paul cried out to God to take his thorn away and God refused. Instead of removing Paul’s pain, Jesus himself promised his power to Paul, sufficient power to meet the pain he was in. In fact, Jesus said, only in such a state of weakness could Paul know the “perfect” or “complete” power of God.
Paul looked at his suffering then as a gift he delighted in: the gift of God’s strength that can only be received when his own strength is inadequate, sapped, used up, gone.
That’s all the answer Paul offers. It’s all I need for now.
Heather EV says:
Thanks for this. Great stuff.
Karen F. says:
Lot’s to think about here . . .
thank you for giving such great perspective and explanation.
I’ll be printing this out to refresh my mind in times of weakness and affliction.
Tater Mama says:
Thank you. You have no idea how much I needed to read this and what a blessing it is to me.
JessicaBowman says:
Timely. I have been wrestling with these conflicting ideas for awhile now.
If only theology were as black and white as the love of Jesus…
jen says:
So much to think about. I love that you didn’t stop with the answers that these great authors give, but you went back to God’s Word, to the sufficiency of Christ. Therein we find the strength and Grace to continue on. Always there.
I’m sorry this time holds a struggle for you.
Shaun Groves says:
This time doesn’t hold a struggle for me. It did recently but, thank God, it’s passed and I’m on the backside learning, praying, tenderized, a little scared, a lot weak, but mostly grateful.
sarah valente says:
Love this. The way I “rationalize” the two is that Satan, whether he likes it or not, is just another tool of God.
God gives good gifts; Satan brings death.
But the death that Satan tries to bring CAN and WILL be turned into one of God’s good gifts…if we let Him work (Romans 8:28).
Thanks for another great post!
Vanessa says:
These verses are especially meaningful to me, having watched my 1 year old son battle leukemia and a host of complications for the last 9 months. And just this week, my best friend’s 2 day old son died. Life’s hard. And it’s hard not to wonder why God “allows” these things to happen to us. Or more specifically, to “them” – these sweet, innocent babies.
>>> “Again, Paul says clearly that the suffering he experienced was a subject of Satan, Satan’s messenger, Satan’s angel, sent by Satan. But, why would Satan want to prevent conceit in Paul? It doesn’t make sense that Satan would want to make Paul more like Christ.”
I don’t think that Satan wanted to prevent conceit in Paul. I think that’s how God wanted to use what Satan was doing. Surely Satan had other motives…to turn Paul away from Christ? To make him doubt God’s love? His protection? His provision?
Having basically lived the last 9 months of our lives on the pediatric oncology floor of our local hospital, I’ve seen plenty of suffering. And I’ve seen some people let God use it for His good. And I’ve seen others not. How we respond to the suffering, how we let God move in our lives, makes all the difference.
noelle says:
Hey Vanessa,
I just wanted to let you know that you, your little boy, your family, and your best friend’s family are all being prayed for. Do you have a way that we could send cards to your little guy or even stickers or something like that? you can e-mail me at [email protected]. thanks.
Krissy says:
Great thoughts here. Still, I think the real message of the book of Job is that “WHY” is really the wrong question to ask.
I believe with all my heart that Jesus is the definitive revelation of who God is. He never afflicted anyone with anything, or refused to heal anyone who came to him and asked. That should always be our picture of who God is, don’t you think?
Janet Oberholtzer says:
Good point Krissy – I much prefer to think of God as Jesus rather than the God of some of the acts we see God do and/or ask his people to do in the OT.
And you are right Jesus never afflicted anyone – that kind of God I can love. And I live believing that a God who calls himself love would never afflict anyone. Yes, maybe tough circumstances to walk through to train, discipline or prepare, but nothing that damages a person.
And Jesus never refused to heal anyone – but I guess that only applied to his time here on earth, because I know many people (myself included) that have asked God for healing and have not received it.
Jason Rust says:
Dude, this is good
Jennifer R. says:
Good thoughts, but I have to disagree with your assessment in one point. Paul says that the thorn in his flesh was given to him, but he doesn’t say that it was given to him by Satan. He says the thorn itself is a “messenger of Satan” but I don’t think that necessarily implies that it was a messenger “sent by” Satan. Just by looking at WHY the thorn was given to him shows that God had to be the one to send it. Satan wouldn’t want to keep Paul from being conceited.
We just finished a study of the book of Jonah in our women’s group and it is clear from Jonah that God is the one who sends calamity to accomplish His purposes.
Also, Isaiah 45:7 says:
“I form the light and create darkness,
I make peace and create calamity;
I, the LORD, do all these things.”
Shaun Groves says:
I don’t disagree that God may in fact send “calamity”. I don’t claim to understand that mystery.
But Paul, in this passage, clearly believes HIS calamity was at least partially sent by Satan. He calls it Satan’s angel or messenger, one sent by Satan, while at the same time crediting God with using it to refine his character. This doesn’t deny God’s involvement but leaves it undefined…in THIS passage.
I don’t know if Paul, while writing these words, believed God ordered Satan to send his thorn. Or if he believed God allowed Satan to send his thorn. Or if Paul believed Satan snuck one by God. I just don’t think this passage alone can be used to make such a case.
But in the end, such debate isn’t the thrust of Paul’s paragraph and such debate is a luxury afforded by those who aren’t swallowed up in calamity at the moment. The aim of Paul’s words seems to be to proclaim God as good in the midst of calamity, powerful enough, able to strengthen in weakness, the one ultimately glorified and benefitted by Paul’s calamity, that weakness is the stage for God’s grace. And those in calamity cling to these words for that reason: God is with us, refining us, humbling us, working all things together for good.
Let’s agree to disagree perhaps on the source of calamity (though, I don’t claim to know the source) and agree on the good that comes from it and the One who brings about that good. That is a unifying truth: God is good.
Janet Oberholtzer says:
The mysteries of life …
Good food for thought, Shaun.
You wrote, “Paul didn’t care to clarify how exactly this partnership between Satan’s torture and God’s good worked.”
Do you think maybe the reason Paul didn’t clarify it, is because Paul was at the same place you and I are – trying to figure out why he (and others) suffer?
Lisa says:
If our Christian walk is meant to be a purification process, might it be possible that the “thorn in the flesh” was a remnant of the sinful nature in Paul that needed to be recognized? Might it have been allowed to remain in Paul in order to build a merciful character in him as he deals with others’ shortcomings? Like John Mark’s inability to stick with the program?
Shaun Groves says:
It’s almost universally agreed that the “thorn” was a physical ailment of some kind, not a character defect or habitual sin, the product of his sinful nature.
But, yes, it seems that Paul was being “sanctified” by the pestering and possibly painful presence of this thorn in his flesh.
I see my own thorn teaching me first to believe when it seems God has abandoned me, when I can’t see any evidence of his existence or presence. Then I see that my thorn has humbled me, shown me how much I truly depend upon on my own skill, intellect, whatever. And I see it deepening my hunger for meditation, prayer, study and reading of the Bible, for Christian community, for evangelism and service and worship. I see it making me more compassionate on others who suffer, able to almost clairvoyantly perceive who is hurting and what they need.
The thorn in my flesh is truly sanctifying me, though in my darkest times I don’t see it or the God who uses it to woodshed me. I do tonight.
kelly welch says:
I’ve been listening to a lot of teachings on healings, and one pastor dissected this verse pretty thoroughly. He talked about the only other time a “thorn in the flesh” was talked about in the Bible, it was referring to a person. Doesn’t this change the whole idea? Perhaps Paul wasn’t struggling with an illness or a physical limitation, maybe he just had someone who was being a real pain in the keister! The teachings that I’ve listened to about healing have had a lot to do with believing that healing is for YOU, and your ability to believe that God can do this for YOU affects your ability to receive it.
Let me give you an example. I had a very bad case of carpal tunnel brought on by a rash I had gotten from using Tide laundry soap. I couldn’t make a fist, I couldn’t wring out a washcloth to wipe my 2 year old’s smile, I couldn’t open a jar. I went to the doctor, and when he diagnosed Carpal Tunnal I went “How could this be”. (Checked out the website, apparently it can be triggered by such things as a nasty laundry soap rash!) For months I had to live with this, as the doctor did not recommend surgery. Finally one of my friends asked if I had had it prayed for. PRAYER? For something as minor as this? Prayer was for cancer and accidents, big things. Such was my mindset. Long story short–God healed it, right then and there, and I couldn’t believe it.
As I continued to learn about God’s healing, the best sermon I ever heard taught me this: Is it God’s Will for you to be healed? LOOK AT JESUS. What did Jesus do when he walked this earth? He didn’t heal some of the people who came to him–he healed them ALL. As my bible study friends and I continue to walk this path of study and seeking, one of my friend’s teenage son, Joshua, was pitching a baseball game on a Thursday night. He suddenly grabbed his armand fell on the ground in pain. Xrays revealed he had broken his elbow. The doctor put him in a cast and asked him if he wanted any pain meds. Joshua looked at him and said, “I already have medicine at home–the bread and wine of the communion.” All the way home he and his family confessed the scriptures that promise us that “by His stripes we are healed” and Psalm 103 “He heals all your diseases”. That was Thursday. Tuesday he goes back in to the doctor, doctor takes a new xray—-and has to get the old one to compare them side by side. The break was completely healed, and Josh pitched the game that night. I woke up the next day with a bad migraine, and I decided “Lord, if I can’t trust you to heal a headache, I won’t have trust for you to heal anything” I spent time in prayer, and I too, took communion, remembering that the bread was His body, broken for me, and the wine represents His blood, which makes me right with God. A migraine that would have put me out for half the day—gone in less than 30 minutes. The teaching that inspired me? Pastor Joseph Prince “Receiving Healing With Faith and Patience”. Blessings!
Shaun Groves says:
I’m thrilled that you and Josh were healed! Thrilled! I believe God still heals, still provides “signs and wonders” to us today.
However, I do not believe everyone who believes God can heal them will be healed. The bible gets in the way of that theology.
One verse you used to support this claim was Isaiah 53:5, which is interpreted for us by 1 Peter 2:24. It reads: “He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; by his wounds you have been healed”
The word “healed” can mean both physical and spiritual healing. In the context Peter places it in, it seems most likely to mean spiritual healing – replacing slavery to sin with the righteousness of Christ.
It is true that there are no stories of Jesus being unable to heal someone. Factor in Jesus’ divinity, his will therefore being God’s will, and that makes a lot more sense: Jesus never attempted anything the Father didn’t want him to do. Jesus did not heal everyone. At the pool at Bethesda he healed one of many who were at the pool to be healed (John 5).
“Now in Jerusalem by the Sheep Gate there is a pool, called in Aramaic Bethsaida, which has five porticoes. In these lay many invalids—blind, lame, and paralyzed” John 5:2-3
Jesus asks one man if he wants to be healed and the man says, “Sir, I have no one to put me into the pool when the water is stirred up; and while I am making my way, someone else steps down ahead of me.” It could be that the man was saying that given the system at the pool, he had no hope of being healed. How’s that for faith?
When he’s later asked by the religious leaders who healed him, he doesn’t even know. It doesn’t seem that his faith in Jesus healed him. Yet he was the only man of the “many” reportedly healed by Jesus that day.
Nor did the apostles heal everyone with an infirmity. Paul instructed Timothy to drink wine to treat his stomach problem instead of healing him (1 Timothy 5:23).
1 John 5:14 says “This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us. And if we know that He hears us—whatever we ask—we know that we have what we asked of Him”
Again, I believe in miracles. I’ve been healed and met the healed. I pray over people after concerts, that God will heal them. I believe God has answered some of those prayers with healing. But not always. Not yet. But someday the kingdom will come in full. For now we have only a taste. But I’m sure glad you got a taste.
Sassiekiwi says:
Hi Shaun
Thanks for writing on this. I love the way the message puts it …
“My grace is enough; It’s all you need. My strength comes into its own in your weakness ..”
“Once I heard that, I was glad to let it happen. I quit focusing on the handicap and BEGAN APPRECIATING THE GIFT (caps mine). It was a case of Christ’s strength moving in on my weakness.” (2 Cor 12:7 – The Message)
It’s been a rough few years for me and I am now coming out the other side looking back. I have thought a lot about thorns and suffering. A few years ago I developed a tumor and then on top of that went through major health issues meaning that I had to have a hysterectomy at 39 and will never be able to have children.
In the midst of all that I have learnt a lot about thorns … some of my thoughts are here
http://carpentershand.blogspot.com/2008/04/gift-of-thorns.html
Thorns … whether we like to see it or not, are a gift. They bring us closer to God.
You have given me more food for thought.
Thanks
S
Monica Snyder says:
Shaun,
We are facing a second brain surgery and spinal fusion for our two year old daughter, Danica. http://www.teamdanica.com/2010/04/chiari.html I have wrestled with God the last months over these same issues.
Thank you for this post. I will be praying for your family.
Mark 9:24 “I do believe; help me overcome my unbelief.”
Kris says:
I needed this. Thank you.
Tammy says:
Thanks for this perspective– we’ve recently been experiencing some ‘spiritual attack’ in regard to our business (in a culture where we are trying to shine brightly as ‘lights’ for Him, yet we keep experiencing setbacks).. and this was a great reminder of how God can use it for good and that He desires we thank Him in faith. That has been my prayer these days.