Shaun Groves
I spoke to a group of bright Christian business students at Texas A&M University on Saturday. I explained the core message of Jesus in the first session. And in the second session we talked about how the teaching of Jesus would affect their lives in business: I showed them pictures and told them stories from around the world of injustice and poverty I’ve seen caused or exacerbated by American corporate practices.
Kids born without ears because a U.S. company mines nickel in the Dominican Republic in a (cheaper) way it’s not allowed to back home.
Children eating from a dump while their parents harvest sugar cane for Florida Crystals for less than $2 a day.
Communities without water, roads and schools because U.S. “aid” funded a nation’s military complex instead of improvements to infrastructure and social services.
We talked about how these Christian business students could should use their wealth, time and talents to combat or prevent these inequities in the future. For starters, Christians ought to hold themselves to a Law higher than those of their government. What’s legal isn’t necessarily faithful. What’s faithful isn’t often the most profitable.
Then they asked questions.
A girl on the front row who’d been taking notes feverishly, raised her hand. She began to speak, sometimes leaving out articles, unable to pronounce the letter “l.” She was an international student eager to learn about Jesus but troubled by the consequences of obeying him.
She opened one hand, looked at it and began her question. “You say good for Christian to put others before them self and give.” She opened her other hand. “In business we told to take advantage of competition and all opportunity to maximize profit. Is this contradiction?” she asked, smashing both hands together into a crumpled awkward lump.
“Yes,” I said.
I’m not sure what I saw in her eyes in that silent moment. I think it was sadness.
Aaron K. says:
It’s a clash of two worldviews.
We are taught to gather wealth, but we are also taught to share our wealth and possessions an to love others.
Who will we obey?
Paul Steinbrueck says:
Hey Shaun, great topic. I think it’s a shame this young woman has been taught that businesses are supposed to “take advantage of competition and all opportunity to maximize profit.”
As a Christ follower who has owned and operated a business for 13+ years myself, I view business as an opportunity to help people by providing a great product or service that will improve their life at a fair price.
Maximum profit is not my goal, but rather finding a balance between serving our customers, taking care of our staff, and making enough money to stay in business and invest towards the future. It’s definitely not easy, but I hope it honors God and helps everyone involved.
Robin Vestal says:
I think you can have a Christian Business there have been many around but you have to examine your motives and goals closely. Guiness; was a historical example; the family owned business provided a needed product (unsafe water) and paid it’s employees better than other companies and as the company grew so did the wages and benefits.
In Richmond VA the Ukrops family had a family owned Grocery Story (recently sold) that employeed many people, sold great food at reasonable prices and stayed true to their values; never opened on Sunday and sold no alcohol in a state where beer and wine are sold pretty well everywhere.
Josh says:
One counts all gain and reports their numbers.
One counts all gain as loss.
The tension between that is interesting, to say the least…
Heidi says:
Such a hard topic to wrestle with. As one with a graduate degree in business AND one who works at a Christian college, I think about this all the time.
My office is in charge of enforcing policies, deadlines, and holding students to their contract. We get blasted all of the time for not operating with enough grace. I think some people confuse the concept of grace with the idea of giving people whatever they want. In this age of entitlement, I too often hear from students, “I thought this was a Christian school!” when we have to give them bad news and things don’t turn out the way they want them to. But God doesn’t just blindly give us whatever we want. He has high expectations of us, and sometimes He allows us to learn difficult lessons through our own missteps.
Sorry. Tangent.
I think it’s possible to have Christians in business, who take the time to treat people as individuals. But a purely Christian business model…I’m not so sure that exists.
misty says:
Awesome post.
I think it is possible for Christians to work in a business and even own a business, I guess.
I work in a medical field and most of the owners of the business that I work for are Christians. They tell me that they are. However, I notice to much greed all around me in the field that I work in.
They are generous to some extent. I do notice contradictions between the practices here and what Jesus taught.
I believe that the Christian business is making profit and using a lot of that profit for Gods work then that is cool. I do believe that often times Christian businesses just like secular ones are out to get bulgy pockets.
The more I think about it….the more I think I do believe that a Christian Business IS a contradiction.
Because a business is out to make money for itself. That is what a business does. It isn’t possible to do what Jesus commanded us and be out to make money for ourselves.
Shaun Groves says:
I don’t think Jesus or anyone else in scripture speaks against making money and even being dang good at it.
How that money is made though? Well, there’s a lot said about that.
And then there’s the sin of silence in industry.
Teaching, for instance. Can a Christian be a teacher? Sure. But what happens when the teacher’s union opposes tests that would make certain all teachers can read, write and do math at the grade level they’re teaching? Would a Christian teacher be silent about such opposition?
Or the medical field. Would a Christian doc be in total agreement with the AMA?
What about insurance? Construction? Plumbing? Music? In every industry we run into ethical dilemmas – choices between following Jesus and business as usual.
Money isn’t bad. Wealth isn’t either. It’s the love of it – over justice, the poor, the weak, honesty, etc – that the bible often cautions against (and curses for).
Princess Leia says:
And then there’s the question of running a church like it’s a business….
Sarah Valente (Kingdom Mama) says:
Wow.
[email protected] says:
Sorry this is long. This post sends shivers all over me, and before I think I know what I’d do as a business owner, I have to wonder what negative impact I’ve made on the world as a consumer.
We all turn a blind eye.
An upside-down business model puts what it gives before what it receives – and that as the saved, not as the Savior. I think that to be an advocate for the poor, we have to identify with the poor.
I personally don’t know how to beat materialism, at the great cost of even human life, without a fair and square understanding of my own depravity, giving because nothing is mine.
A few businesses do this, but I don’t know of many that have a huge surplus. Most everything on the plus-side is given away. Oh to see a company wave Isaiah 58 as a banner.
Tracy Edwards says:
Yes, owning a Christian business is tough, but it’s possible. There is definitely a balance to achieve. However, the problem really lies in the fact that we have been taught to define profit and success strictly in terms of money and the bottom line.
For us, we pray every morning that we see each of our patients through the eyes of Christ. We hope that we see beyond what we can get from them and see what we can give them. That doesn’t always mean free services. Sometimes it means an understanding ear or a pat on the back.
When we accomplish that, we feel successful and profitable, no matter how much money was made.
Shaun Groves says:
And you, my friend, are dang good at being a Christian in business. And making my teeth pretty. ; )
Miss you ,friend.
Meredith says:
You know what’s crazy, and not in a good way, I was a Business Marketing major at a private Christian university… and never heard about poverty. We learned about moral, ethical and “biblical” business practices… but they left the poor out of it.
I want my money back.
misty says:
For some reason I can’t reply to posts…so anyway.
I agree with you Shaun that making money or being wealthy isn’t bad. I guess I am mostly speaking from my personal experience where I am right now.
I see a lot of greed and I see a lot of people in need and I see how those needs can be met but aren’t.
I just think that a lot of businesses (Christian or not) aren’t making decisions and asking “what would Jesus really command me to do in this situation”.
I also believe that when your focus is making money then you have lost focus. Now, if you do what you do and you make money and and in turn are doing whatever it is that God called you to do then that is cool. However, when your main focus is how much $ did I make today….that kind of is love of money.
What Tracy Edwards said above…I think that is the heart of it. Praying for your patients daily…that is huge.
Amy says:
I find, that as a believer, I often have to contradict what the world tells me is true.
Julie Trivitt says:
As a Christian and economics professor, I must disagree with the answer you gave the student. We cannot expect moral change to begin with corporate managers.
In a market system corporate managers are expected to make decisions in the best interests of shareholders, which is usually maximizing profits without violating any laws. If they were to act otherwise, whose moral values would they use?
The best route for Christians is to spend our income and invest so that doing the right thing is the profit maximizing choice for corporations. Refuse to purchase products made by companies that use unsafe methods overseas. Refuse to buy stock in companies that have human rights violations. When we get serious about that we’ll see change.
Shaun Groves says:
I disagree with you now…sort of, Julie. If I’m understanding you correctly.
We’re both right. I don’t think this is an either/or situation. I think it’s a both/and.
A Christian should behave faithfully even when it is not pragmatic/profitable regardless of whether he or she is a manager or a consumer. And a lot of us are both.
The “moral values” used by both Christian managers and consumers are those of Christ’s teachings…as best as mere mortals can interpret them.
Agreed?
FzxGkJssFrk says:
Shaun, I’m guessing these issues will be a major factor in post-flood discussions in Nashville with insurance companies.
Speaking of which, you okay?
Shaun Groves says:
You know, my family in South Texas is still waiting on insurance companies to pay on claims from Rita, knowing that everyday people don’t have the money to sue them. But, hey, it’s best for their shareholders right? ; )
We’re great! Thanks for asking. My small city outside of Nashville has only very minor damage.
This isn’t Katrina for sure. Very few lives were lost and very little was completely destroyed in Nashville. The rescue is over. The rebuilding/remodeling is underway.
The poorest were most egregiously affected so we’re collecting tents and food and other supplies for those who live in “tent city” near the Cumberland River.
Anyone in the area interested in donating can visit http://peoplelovingpeople.org/
Thanks for asking.
Douglas says:
I think about this issue every time every time I purchase sugar. Is it good enough to buy C&H as opposed to a generic brand at 1/2 the cost? Does any of that cost differential make it back to the people working on sugar plantations? I really doubt it, and there doesn’t seem to be good options when it comes to certain products. It’s really sad what is done in the name of profit sometimes. One would *think* that there would be enough consumers/employees willing to stand up for right that the above examples wouldn’t happen.
Beth says:
I can’t answer about whether or not money makes it back to those on plantations. The main reason I purchase Crystal Sugar is because it’s grown and manufactured here in the US and doesn’t use slave labor to do it. The second reason, it’s grown and produced right here in my community, providing jobs for thousands.
Beth
Douglas says:
Thanks, Beth. I’ll look for the product in my local stores.
Holly @ Crownlaiddown says:
Oh how I love His ways! As a business graduate from Texas A&M, I am thrilled that you were able to share there, Shaun.
It certainly is a contradiction…and freedom, if we are willing to sacrifice being at the top–even being last–to win the eternal and lasting stuff in any realm.
I’d love to hear your thoughts on churches that run like businesses. (Forgive me if you have written something before about this topic–if you have, share it!)
dean says:
shaun… as a matter of practicality, how do conscientious consumers go about tracking down info such as you have about Florida Crystals? if a mom is in the sugar aisle at the store and sees “Florida” Crystals, she’s pretty likely to assume it was harvested, processed and packaged in FL, when in fact it’s probably nothing more than corporate headquarters located there. I know with enough time and the right keywords, a person could eventually google the info they’re looking for for each individual product, but are there any clearinghouse-types of sites that someone could go to to get this info fast? Thanks for the great post and the reminder that we need to be conscientious on both ends of the transaction.
Scott says:
One thing we need to remember is that there is nothing “Christian” about purchasing only products manufactured in the U.S. There are plenty of people in third-world countries that need the “power of our dollars” as well!
And yes, we should try to make ourselves aware of how the business is run — “slave labor” is something we don’t want to support… We also, though, must consider companies paying a fair wage somewhere else that we might consider “slave wages” if it was here in the U.S. Those wages might very well be a fair wage in some areas.
It’s not perfect, but places like betterworldshopper.org make an attempt to grade companies on social and environmental issues.
MJ says:
Did you know that ears and kidneys form simultaneously in the womb? Has anyone looked at the effect on the kidneys of these children missing their ears?
kevin Murray says:
I have owned a business for 26 years. I have about 60 employees and we do different apparel programs for different distribution levels. I never have or will call my company a “christian business”. Just because the word christian is in front of it doesn’t make it true or right. The word “christian” should describe a person, not a thing. In 2004 we started to donate a % of our revenue to assist non profit companies helping assist those less fortunate than us. We are trying to leverage the power of the american retailer for good. I feel this is the calling I have for the rest of my work life, to inspire others in business to build charity into their business plans. I call it the collision between commerce and charity. I believe the future of the worlds problems are in the hands of business men, not governments, not religious institutions. I think we have to cheer on the business man, the entrepreneur, christian or not, to be part of the solution.
Mary Barranti says:
Hurrah for your comments, Kevin. I wonder where people think the money to give to charities and those in need comes from if not from businesses making profits? Business is God’s way for people to serve each other, to supply each others’ needs and to be rewarded for it. That reward is called profit and it grows as a business serves more and more people.
That reward/profit is what we have to share with others and to lay up as an inheritance for our grandchildren. Just because some business people are selfish doesn’t mean business is a bad thing. For every Enron out there, there’s a Chic-Fil-A where the people serve God daily.
Debbie Bastian says:
Shaun –
I pray these words bring grace. I just have to wonder at all the talking we do…having lived with our family in guatemala city for 5 years, now with the same ministry in Costa Rica – husband frequently in Haiti…it just seems like we want to find a way out of making some “radical” changes in our own lives – our neighbors in our first home in Guate had NEVER seen a shower – never lived with running water – and for awhile stopped eating with us as they were told we were fattening them up for our own pleasurable eating. I am not sure any of them would agree that the solution is to boycott places that treat their workers horribly. They need to eat, and even getting a dollar a day in inhuman surroundings is still rice and beans for your family. Wouldn’t a better solution be to begin a business, if God has gifted you with business inclinations, that works in some of these places and gives people there the option of working under better conditions?
Instead of figuring out what sugar to buy, maybe use the money for sugar, go without it, and send it to someone who works directly with these people?
We haven’t had hot water for 7 years, ( We do use a widowmaker in the bathroom) and I found I actually can be happy without hot water – this was a revelation to me… Maybe go without a water heater, get widowmakers in the bathrooms, and send that money on? Really, the things I am doing I NEVER thought would be possible!
We will probably be moving back to the States in a few years – O, how I pray I won’t succumb to the “easiness” of sacrifice there!
Even today as I write we are without water, and will probably be tomorrow as well – and I am hot and cranky and definitely not walking in the Spirit at this moment…
I AM NOT a “pioneer woman” ( although before we came I thought I was! HA!). I draw the line at needing hot showers – so know I am not preaching to anyone but myself here…
teresa says:
What a wonderful discusion to start! Greed is such a powerful motive, it hides in so many parts of our lives. It most clearly shows it’s face in business, but all the choices we make, especially what we buy falls on the shoulders of the consumer. Just talking about doing what is right or wrong in business practices is a start of what could change the world. Talking about the problems and issues is the first step in doing what is right.
David Grimes says:
Here is some good news for all of you folks. As a Corporate Chaplain (Arizona Corporate Chaplains is the business outreach arm of Living Inhim Ministries), please know that God is doing many great things in the lives of business owners and employees around the US. We serve the business and its employees by teaching, training and equipping Christian business men and women in how to BE and LIVE Godly. We serve people of faith or no faith by helping them solve personal problems of every type. Billy Graham has said, “The next great movement of God will be in the workplace.” The question is—are YOU ready for Him to use YOU? For more info, please email me at [email protected] or visit my website at livinginhim.org.
Just Me says:
Wow, this struck a chord. My husband works for a large firm that is nonprofit, loosely associated with the church, and gives away TONS of money every year. They do a lot of good works. This summer we are going to a conference on the other side of the country, designed to both reward and motivate employees, by invitation only to the “top performers.” I was reading through the glossy registration booklet, seeing all the details of the ritzy hotel and conference center they’re putting us up at…and the banquets and receptions…and the $50+ PER DAY parking…and the $400+ PER PERSON day trip excursions offered…
And tucked somewhere in the packet was a small sheet of paper, giving information about a “service project” to which the employees can contribute. This organization provides meals, for 25 cents apiece, to children who are STARVING TO DEATH.
I cried.
How messed up is it that even this company’s priorities appear this way? “Feed my sheep.” “Uh, well, sorry Lord, but, you see, I really can’t afford it what with the vacation and the parking and the rental car and the high-end restaurants and and and…” I tried to talk to my husband about how I felt, but he doesn’t really get it. His response was a request that I not get into any of this AT the conference, and get him fired… I’m going to need a lot of grace to behave graciously, that is for sure.
Aaron Mahan says:
I am going to start a business whose bottom line is serving and honoring God and people – my employees, the public, people in government, people in other businesses, and, of course, the poor, needy, and suffering. Profit, wealth, and prosperity WILL follow as an inherent side effect. If it didn’t follow, then Isaiah was a false prophet (see Isaiah 58).
The Kingdom of God is more real than this world, that is passing away. Therefore, the PRINCIPLES of the Kingdom of God are more real than the principles of this world. So the bottom line of a Kingdom Business – which is to serve and honor God and people – is more real than the bottom line of a world business – which is to maximize profit.
Eventually, when Heaven comes to earth at the start of the next age, every business will be a Kingdom Business – the ONLY bottom line will be to serve and honor God and people. But who wants to wait for the next age? We can be forerunners for the Kingdom of God TODAY!
I applaud all who have the courage to abandon how the world says business has to be done in order to be successful. A great example is Matthew McPherson, CEO of Matthews, Inc., the LARGEST GROSSING bow manufacturer in the entire world, who has a philosophy of “people before business”. I also encourage everyone to read “Dreaming with God,” by Bill Johnson.