Shaun Groves
This guy’s doing it all wrong.
He’s the pastor of a church in Kolkata, India that’s partnering with Compassion International – he says to “serve” kids in his community.
Pete and I saw a lot of unchurchy stuff going on at this church. We saw kids exercising.
They were reading and writing.
Kids were learning how to make things they could sell.
This isn’t how a church is supposed to look on a weekday.
It’s supposed to look like this:
This is a common mistake made by pastors in the developing world. They don’t know any better. They’ve never been to a pastors conference.
I’ve seen this time and again: churches in the third world doing stuff we Christians in America are savvy enough to get politicians and non-profits to do for us.
In a church in the Dominican Republic, for instance, I saw new moms learning about nutrition.
In Uganda, I saw a church acting like a job training center.
And all over the developing world our misled brothers and sisters are educating kids who can’t afford to go to school.
Again, churches aren’t supposed to look like that on a weekday. They’re supposed to look like this:
In Kolkata I finally snapped and just asked this pastor guy what on earth he was thinking.
”Our witness is our service,” he said.
What?? Heck no. That’s not how you grow a church. No, what you need is a great looking building in a growing area, where income and population are rising. Then, hire a music guy with a great haircut. Next, come up with a really cool name and logo. Then, mail out a few thousand cards to folks in the neighborhood asking them to come to your Sunday services. Oh, and eventually you’ll need to buy one of these.
And you’ve got to build more buildings. Lots of buildings. And you’ve got to protect those buildings from overuse. So, maybe use on Sunday and for a couple hours on a couple nights a week, but no more than that. Don’t get carried away.
Or else your church could be filled with this kind of nonsense.
You don’t want that. Do you?
Jonathan Blundell says:
Excellent post!
Thank you for sharing.
I’m surprised they pastors didn’t ask you, “Why can’t we call it a church” or “When can we call it a church” like these guys did…
http://guymuse.blogspot.com/2009/05/when-can-we-be-church.html
If only those silly pastors knew….
davepalmer says:
scandalous! what in the world could they be thinking? next thing you know those people might show up on a sunday. thanks for alerting us to this disturbing trend.
Ric says:
Bravo! Excellent post, my friend. If the church in the US would become the Church this world would be a much different place.
Randy Haglund says:
When I went to Tanzania last summer for a leadership conference, I discovered that there is no word in the Swahili language for the spiritual gift of “sarcasm”.
Thank you Shaun!!!
pam says:
I agree. Great post. Thanks, Shaun.
Cheri says:
Thanks for sharing, Shaun. Love your satire!
Sure wish ALL of our churches were “wrong” like this.
Nick says:
Great post!
Zack says:
Wow!
You probably didn’t need to be so sarcastic, but great perspective!
Lisa Martin says:
Now THAT is my kind of Church. It feels so right to be “wrong”. Love it.
adam herod says:
That just happened.
Faye says:
I love the sarcasm, satire, whatever people want to call it. It wakes us up. It causes us to think. It points out our own foibles and misconceptions. It sometimes hurts. (And as I’m learning, Jesus employed it when talking to the religious leaders of His day.)
Great post, beautiful heart. Thanks, Shaun.
Dan says:
“our witness is our service”. I do not think that can convey enough. I hope that he does not mean only that. I believe he doesn’t mean only that but I don’t know for sure.
Service/humanitarian focused outreach will fail to truly bring people to having Jesus as Lord of their life. Standing on a corner shouting or holding a sign saying turn or burn will or Jesus loves you is not going to do it either. Both are extremes.
Just serving and letting that be a witness is not enough. It shouldn’t even be the main thing or focus.
I like your post and the thinking behind it. I work for a church that is very large and has many types of ministries like those mentioned here. But what I see is mostly people who do not understand what Jesus is Lord means or are at least not living in the reality of that, even though they come week after week.
Jennifer Cheek says:
Great post Shaun! I also think the more Christians realize this, it will completely change how non-Christians view the Church as well. God has been teaching me a lot about this too lately…
http://tinyurl.com/otxtyt
Texas in Africa says:
In the Congo, I’ve seen churches that run the only hospitals serving thousands and thousands of people in areas the size of counties. Some of them have even gone so far as to run the entire public school system because the government can’t.
Obviously, the question isn’t what are they thinking, but what are we?
anne jackson says:
but don’t you know us western churches don’t have the resources to do all of those things during the week?…….
CaroleTurner says:
preach that brother!!
We do many of the things you named here in Baton Rouge at the Baton Rouge Dream Center. America is NOT India, I totally get that, but I honestly feel that my pastor and Healing Place Church as a body, believe that Service is our witness. Pastor Dino just wrote a book called SERVOLUTION talking about that very thing. I also know that this is a movement, and MANY churches are now seeing they MUST be the hands and feet of Jesus locally as well as sending money and missionaries globally.
Baton Rouge Dream Center
http://www.servolution.org/
Owlhaven says:
Shaun, Awesome post
Mary
Paul Steinbrueck says:
LOL! Great post!
keith says:
Bravo, Shaun.
Misty says:
Yes!! The ‘church’ in America is the reason that my husband and I are re-thinking ‘church’. The more we read and learn about Jesus the more that we realize that most of the ‘churches’ we see aren’t doing what Jesus did or what He said to do. The reason I say ‘church’ is because WE, the body of believers are THE CHURCH. When Jesus talked of THE CHURCH he talked about people, not buildings. I have taken to calling the ‘church’ the building and calling us, the body of believers, THE CHURCH.
My question to Shaun and the others out there reading…now what? We know this is what Jesus said THE CHURCH should do, we can’t find a building in our area that is doing ‘church’ this way. What now?
Trey Chandler says:
Who do they think the are trying to be like? Jesus?
Mike says:
great post, Shaun. Thanks for your insight!
Brittnie says:
You are great! Loved it!
Sarah Bass says:
We have a lot to learn, don’t we?
Kristie Wooten says:
YES! I want THAT! Love the post!
Matt Hughes says:
Killer post. You speak my language bud.
Happy Geek says:
I totally get the point that you are trying to make, I do, but I’ve served in churches that are trying to do this. Right here in Canada and the US. Where there is assistance provided to pay the AC of very poor people in the middle of the summer, providing they attend a class on finances taught by a church member, where 500 community kids gather and play basketball for free, coached and mentored by those in the church, or smaller churches where the pastor can simply call a member and say “here’s a need of someone in the community” and that member answers the need. We’ve got a long way to go, but don’t write off the North American church just yet.
Matt Lehmann says:
Amazing…. what pastor’s conference is he going to? Maybe he needs to come to the United States and learn how it’s supposed to be done.
This is the best post I’ve read in a month- if only the Church in America would wake up. But just in case anyone who is commenting forgets… it starts with me. And you. Not “Them”.
Thanks so much Shaun!
Shaun Groves says:
Not writing it off at all, Happy Geek. Read my blog regularly and you’ll see me bragging on churches I get to visit who are doing what they’re saved for. And doing it very very well.
But, as a guy who’s at 100 churches a year, and talks to almost as many pastors, I swear to you the kind of churches you describe are the exception and not the rule here in the U.S. “Our witness is our service” is not the norm. But I think it’s becoming that way. I’m hopeful it is. I’m working toward that almost every weekend.
Kaye says:
Shaun, you rock. Enough said.
Mary R Snyder says:
Thank you! Thankyouverymuch!
“stuff we Christians in America are savvy enough to get politicians and non-profits to do for us.”
This statement just made me want to jump up and shout hallelujah! You get it, you really get it!!
I work in child advocacy and am the exec. director for a non-profit that speaks up for abused / neglected children. I struggle to keep the doors open because local churches (mine included) believe that this program should be supported by government. I’ve heard the “well, we give to missions twice a year” once or 453 times too many.
I started this work 7 years ago with a Pollyanna attitude that everyone wants to help a group working for the best-interest of children. Oh, my have learned a thing or two.
Do we, as a nation, truly believe that underpaid, overworked, government employees care more about the children of our neighborhoods than we do?
Are we willing to turn a blind eye to the 500,000+ children currently in foster care? What about the over a million children involved in the reported cases of abuse/neglect?
And the 2500 that died at the hands of their parents last year?
What about the 30,000 teens that will age out of the system with nowhere to go?
And that’s just this country. That’s America.
Social work began as a ministry of church. It’s our job to look out for the children. We should never need to beg people to serve as advocates for children in need. We should never have to beg people to serve as foster parents. But we do.
And every day more and more children slip through the cracks in the legal system and the social services system. I know this. I’ve watched them fall. I’ve had them slip right through my hands.
We need more hands making a difference!
Ooops—sorry, didn’t mean to go all soapbox on you. No, that’s not true. I did mean to.
barton Damer says:
Great post Shaun! So good.
Andrea says:
Truth hurts. I shed a few tears as I read this. The American church does do alot of good but in my experience I feel that much of what we do is clouded by our materialistic and over-produced cultural expectations.
I am so happy for them, though. The served and the servers. That’s the church I long to be a part of again someday.
Thanks for the post.
Shaun Groves says:
Hey, Mary, is someway I could help? Get in touch if there is.
Lori says:
Bravo! Love this post. Ironically I am reading about the “two” imaginary churches from “The Hole in our Gospel.”
Benji Zimmerman says:
I used to be a dreamer who spent countless months oversees serving. I have become complacent. Thanks for reminding me of what I do not want to become.
Shaun Groves says:
You’re welcome, Benji. Tomorrow I might need you to return the favor.
Elysa Harvey MacLellan says:
Dang. This is good stuff. I found this thru a link on facebook.
May I share it on my blog?
Lindsay @ Not2Us says:
Love it!
Sherry says:
I LOVE this word. Thank you for speaking it and reminding us of what the church should look like and be. Keep it coming.
Hopefully we won’t just be hearers only of this exhortation.
Dennis says:
Wow – God is really challenging me in this area. Five minutes earlier I “tweeted” this while studying for the Crazy Love Sunday School I am teaching:
Imagine if the early church only got tgthr once a week for services & then went back 2 life as usual? -F Chan / wld I be writing ths? -me
Thanks for making sure that I didn’t just tweet and forget!
Blessings!
deirdre says:
my question Shaun is how to wake my church up. I want this, but I don’t know how to make it happen.
Deirdre
Shaun Groves says:
I’ll write about that soon, deirdre.
Cheri says:
Simply Love This!
chad swanzy says:
You forgot about one of the key and crucial elements to church growth…
Countless forms, policies, and hoops to jump through to keep this crazy kind of stuff from happening. Keep people in check and they will never even consider silly stuff like this.
The moment someone wants to do something for “outsiders” they will soon turn tail and go to a para-church or non-profit with their crazy ideas.
Problem solved.
Joseph McLean says:
Thanks for slapping me Shaun : )
Joey
Ed says:
I’ve often thought that “if your church has a cafe in it, then it is part of the problem not the solution”
However, from the mega church point of view, they are doing exactly what these 3rd world churches are doing. Serving the community. In the West, hunger is not as big of an issue and schooling is tax payer funded. Therefore, the church in the West does summer camps growth groups to help foster a sense of community. It may look different, but the aim of the church in the West is the same as the 3rd world. The church in the West gets it wrong when we put too much emphasis on “church ought to be a FUN place”. So, the music has to appeal to people and sermons need to be short and appeal to felt needs.
Mary R Snyder says:
Oh Ed, you’re right the church in the West doesn’t have as big of an issue with hunger but a recent report on hunger shows that in 11 states (most in the Southeast) 20% of children 5 and under are at risk of going hungry.
We do have a hunger problem in America. Scary isn’t it?
And yes, schools are free. But the children? Oh my, the children in America need us—they need the church. And you’re right that we don’t need to focus on fun, but on building community and working within that community.
Jessica says:
Thanks for making me realize I am spending way too much time on facebook. My first reaction reading this was to click Like. Yes, I have issues.
Joy @ Five J's says:
So true, and so very well said. If only everyone in the American church could read your post, Shaun!
anon4him says:
Beautifully done
Shayne says:
@Ed,
I used to go once a month into the projects to help teach sunday school. The kids would get up, dress themselves and come walking into the ministry center that was located in the heart of the housing community. No parents EVER came. None of the kids who came were over the age of 10. We had one family of kids…seven of them….that all lived together with their parents in a 3 bedroom apartment. All the kids were 10 and under. The little girls broke my heart. They had to get themselves dressed and their younger siblings.
They came to hear about Jesus, to receive hugs from us, and for the food. One little girl came and her ears were so infected that it was running down the side of her neck.
During the summer, when these kids are out of school, there is no guarantee that they’ll be fed properly even if their parents receive government assistance.
Hunger is a huge problem in Tennessee. But the even bigger problem is apathy. We have mega-churches in this area. All of them think they are doing enough. Unfortunately, if even one child is going without…then we aren’t doing enough.
Drew says:
AMEN!!!
ally simpson says:
SHAUN, you sarcastic beautiful git, you made me cry a little bit with this post
amen
Helen Bascom says:
Imagine that! A Church teaching, caring, sharing, and on a Weekday! Fantastic post.
kara-kae james says:
wow. they should be coming to us to tell us about Jesus not the other way around.
Smith says:
This is amazing! Brought tears.
Alastair says:
Shaun your post and the photos are brilliant. Thanks for sharing.
Brad Ruggles says:
Ok, I think this is now one of my favorite posts. Amazing, challenging stuff Shaun. Makes me want to copy and paste that into my mail app and email it to every church and pastor in America (not that I have a list like that…but how cool would it be if I did?).
Well said Shaun. That post right there was worth your trip in my opinion.
Daniel says:
Preach that Word, brother! It’s time we started taking to heart the words of Jesus’ brother James and practiced what we preached.
I especially love the comment about a music guy with a great haircut. I’m a music guy and I’m pretty sure I only got hired because of my haircut!
Reggie says:
Awesome, bro. I love when the gospel is preached through actions of love more than it is through words.
Crystal Renaud says:
that quote, “our witness is our service.” has haunted me since you said in the mogulus chat while in India. we think we are there to teach them and save them… but it is us who have it so wrong.
Shaun Groves says:
I appreciate all the kind words and encouragement for the work of churches like these. One of the best attaboys we could give them though is to underwrite they’re good work.
Let us not love with words but with action… Right?
Sponsor a child and support the work of a local church in a third world community.
Jim Hunt says:
Shaun,
Thank you, you saw the Master at work and shared it with us. I am grateful.
Jim Peterson says:
Shaun,
God has told his people that its the Church that is to educate,lift up,train and be the suppy to our every need !
he has given us the gifts…but we refuse to use them ??
Curtis Honeycutt says:
(Stands up and is clapping in front of his laptop.)
a thorn among roses says:
yep…good stuff.
Jared Wilson says:
Good post, Shaun.
There are churches like this in America, as others have pointed out. I bet there’s at least one in every major metropolitan area.
I also am willing to bet almost none of your commenters here go to one.
I pastor a church that gives 60% of its budget away to foreign and inner city mission. Community service is a non-negotiable 1/3 of our ministry.
We own no building, have no paid staff, and don’t have bells and whistles or goods and services. And we are a tiny community in Nashville, the heart of the so-called Bible Belt.
So the Bravo’s ring hollow to me. Put up or shut up, is what I say.
Shaun Groves says:
What church is that, Jared?
Fran says:
I think a church should be named “The church that does….”
Thank you Shaun.
Fran
Jared Wilson says:
Element.
http://www.elementnashville.org
Kevin Twombly says:
freakin’ awesome man – you just kicked me right in the crotch!
Thanks for the challenge…
Shaun Groves says:
This posts struck a nerve. It’s being spread by lots of folks on Twitter and Facebook. A few tousand people have read it now. But…
What would YOU like to do about it where you live?
If you have a blog and you have an answer – no matter how idealistic or crazy it might sound – post about it. Then send me the link or twitter it using the hashtag #MyWitness and I’ll link to everyone’s posts on Monday and add another post of my own to the discussion.
If you’re a pastor, I’d love you to write about what you need to do something like what these churches are doing in your own community. Why not? What’s missing? What are the hurdles? Have you tried? What worked and what didn’t?
THANKS!
Elisabeth says:
so beautiful….
christie farley says:
ouch on the whale, built for the children, who can be found sliding on it at any various times during the week and during church.
i get your post, totally…but the children’s whale as the call out…
SuperBabysitter - Ashley says:
I must say – your thickness of sarcasm gave me a start at first, but a friend sent me here with good intentions so I now know that you were being sarcastic.
But maybe for people who just happened upon this article a “Just kidding” at the end of the post might be a good idea?
Pictures and message was very good though.
You got my standing ovation.
suzie stogner says:
GREAT…made me cry a little and i am not one to cry!!!!
Big Blue House Girl says:
Loved. This. Post. This seriously brought tears to my eyes….. I have LONG been so sad about all the ‘building programs’ and the 20 million or more Bapti-stadiums…. maybe its just the social worker in me, but what a waste it seems! How many hungry people could be fed….needs met….souls saved with that kind of $$? Meanwhile the SBC is bringing missionaries home because they can no longer pay their salaries….SO sad. I’m with you 100%.
If our CHURCH would stand up and do its job and quit building bowling alleys, we wouldn’t have so many on welfare….
Jodi Renshaw says:
I am not a Christian … but have total respect for the work Christian communities are doing in their “third world” communities. This piece was wonderful to read. Well done. If all churches – of all faiths – could be this vigorous in their attempts to assist people lead better lives – then WOW – what a world we could be!
Shaun Groves says:
There was a dissenting opinion left here by someone calling themselves “Concerned.” I deleted it not because the commenter disagreed with me but because they lied to all of us here by leaving a fake e-mail address and url. All opinions are welcome to this community discussion. But drive-by comments who leave no way for the rest of us to respond are deleted always – on all posts.
Concerned, you are welcome to repost if you can play by these rules. And I hope you do. Your point was valid and sure to create more discussion.
Thanks.
Gary says:
Is the problem the church, or is the problem me? Haven’t my expectations of what I want my church to look like invaded the hearts of pastors – the same pastor who simply wants to make a difference? I’m not trying to let the North American Church off the hook. I just know that, for me, it’s far easier to place blame than to look hard in the mirror.
Shaun Groves says:
Is the problem the church, or is the problem me.
Couldn’t agree more, Gary. That’s where I am on all this these days anyway. More on that in another post I think.
Arlene Norton says:
I found God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit all huddled in a tiny shack of a building in Ethiopia, where 15 orphans sang and danced for me as I sat on a mud floor in a state of grace. In America I returned to my oversized car, and my voluminous house to pray in my mega-plex church and it just wasn’t the same. I’ve been trying to re-create that experience ever since. . . I hope someone can figure it out, bottle it, write a song about it, make a movie for it and market it to us pew- sit’in, over-blessed, bible-tote’in, Sunday morning Christians.
mona says:
Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify you Father which is in heaven. (Matthew 5:16)
Pure religion, and undefiled before God is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world. (James 1:27)
Moreover as for me, God forbid that I should sin against the LORD in ceasing to pray for you: but I will teach you the good and the right way: (I Samuel 12:23)
That kinda’ says it all, don’t you think.
Stacie says:
Love this! Love it!!
Lindsay @ Not2Us says:
P.S. I’m glad you didn’t add a “Just Kidding.” This isn’t a joke, and, even when it stings, it must be said.
Thank you for taking a strong stand.
Cummings Family says:
Christ would do that, he would help the little children, because to enter the kingdom of heaven, we must become like them. True ‘Christianity’ is manifested among true believers, like our brothers and sisters in third world countries.
pete wilson says:
Great post Shaun. That pastor and his words have echoed in my mind and heart ever since that day.
readytoserve says:
for many years, you’ve been my favorite artist, now you are my favorite comedian!
Ellisia Jesnes says:
Wow
SuperBabysitter - Ashley says:
I need to rephrase what I wrote.
I don’t want a “Just kidding” at the end of this blog.
I just want people who take offense too quickly to understand that it was a sarcastic blog post. I am a Christian myself, and am blessed to be a part of a church that does outreaches to minister to people not just give them a few services a week with a cool playground. I must say Shaun, your blog post blessed me thoroughly and I hope everybody that sees my comment before, also sees this one.
Case and point: I don’t want unbelievers to see this blog post and think that you were being overly-critical or to write all of us Christians off as that.
Hope I explained myself well enough so everyone can understand what I am saying.
God Bless
Jeff Goins says:
Great post, Shaun. I believe that this is why we need to go on more trips like the one that you went on – not so that we Westerners can evangelize the rest of the world necessarily, but so that they can teach us how to be Christians.
Greg Simmons says:
Perfect…absolutely perfect.
Justin-Perry, FL says:
You are either going to be a “keeping church” or a “reaching church”. Very hard to be both.
Robin says:
I agree this is a timely post. My dh is a church planter and we believe strongly that our job is to reach people and then to teach them to BE the church. I agree in part that the church in the west will look different than churches in developing nations. I disagree that it should. We are in Texas now and there are 11 million people in Texas that are unchurched and there are over 3 million that go to bed hungry at night. We in America are foolish to believe that the neediest in the world are outside our borders. Until the church in America wakes up to the problems of spiritual and physical hunger within America we will continue to be ineffective.
Thanks for your post and your obvious commitment to see the news of Christ spread throughout the world.
keld says:
Hi
this looks awsome! my church actually have contacts in India and Sri Lanka! i wonder if they do things like this!?
Bless
keld