Shaun Groves
I’m flying to Indiana today. Until I get to some Wi-Fi, discuss amongst yourselves…
*
Fundamentalist or curious: Using Seth‘s definitions, which describes you best?
What if you were more curious? What would the implications be on your relationships, your work, your dinner choice, your bank account, your faith, your dreams?
What will you do to feed curiosity and starve fundamentalism in yourself?
Resist the temptation to use these defintions and questions as weapons against “they” or “some people” in your comment here. This is about you and me.
*all text in this video by Nic, not Seth.
Veretax says:
This is a very interesting video, and I so agree with it. So many people just accept what is given to them, they aren’t curious. I think I fall into the Curious point, cause at one point in my life I stopped accepting what was taught to me by my parents, or my teachers, professors, church, etc. And reached out and began to investigate on my own what is the truth, what really is true. In many cases I changed my mind about things that earlier in life I would not have considered (Take for example the institution of baptism in the church and how it is practiced, or the thought that had been drilled into my head that its the corporations job to provide job security rather than an individual working to keep their job secure.) Thank you for posting this video Shaun, it really makes you wonder, how do you as a person handle situations.
Matt Brier says:
I would have to say I’m more curious, but I definitely have streaks of fundamentalism running through me. My basic nature is to explore and test everything and go with what is most logical. I have a hard time accepting things at face value unless I trust the source of the information. Even then I’m more likely to do more of my own follow-up research. However, as I get older I find myself more inclined to accept or reject an idea when it is presented out of sheer laziness.
rachel says:
where in indiana?? i love indiana … most of the time 😀
interesting video. made me think of a few things:
*is there a ‘fundamental’ truth? and if there is, how can i know it? CAN i know it? how much of it can i know?
*i noticed an emphasis on the few, great curious versus the masses of the mediocre… of COURSE the human’s natural response to this is, “i want to be considered great/special, not mediocre/average.” borderline propagandic language? i’m not sure if it is … but i did think about it.
*i have tendencies both to be fundamentalist and to be curious. curious = having “a desire to understand, a desire to try, a desire to push the envelope.” my desire is to understand, to try. is it my desire to push the envelope? only if it’s necessary to understand.
in fact, let me push this envelope: some people say it’s the journey that matters most (being curious … always seeking). other people say that only the end result is important (the fundamentalist’s truth). but i believe that it’s both. it does me no good to end up in the wrong place with wrong beliefs. but it hardly does me any better to end up in the right place having gotten there without going by the right path. and in the end, i believe the best WAY to go and the best PLACE to be is giving Glory to God through my life.
because i believe that Yahweh is the Author and holder of all wisdom. He knows it all. and for all my curiosities, never will i be able to go beyond His grasp of wisdom. is His wisdom absolute? is His Truth absolute? yes, i believe it is. do i know all the mysteries of God? no. not yet :D. not this side of heaven.
so i will be curious … i won’t accept every truth (even seth’s) at face value. and yet i will remain rooted ‘fundamentally’ in the Author of every Truth, trusting that He will guide my way and He will make my arrival just right.
nic askew says:
i imagine curiosity to avoid the desire to agree or disagree with anything. and to always ask questions but avoid the need to have them answered in any final way.
Nic – i made the film : )
Chestertonian Rambler says:
I think he forgets a third category:
Those who favor the facts over any belief.
I think he’s right to do so, because that way (if taken seriously) comes true and utter madness. Because we can’t know the facts, and therefore have to believe things. But I think many consider that the model for “the curious.”
(I hope I haven’t gone too close to “they.”)
MamasBoy says:
Interesting question. Does fundamentalism or curiosity describe me best. There are certain things that I’m curious about and certain things I’m not. Pedophilia, Pedastry: I’m a fundamentalist there. One might call me a bigot in that regard. Hinduism and Islam: somewhat curious: It’s hard to understand one’s friends without understanding their religion. Besides that, some aspects of Islamic and Hindu culture are actually better than American culture (even among Christians). Zorastrianism: fundamentalist: no reason to explore or wonder. Christian groups outside my own: very curious. Despite their faults, they often do many things better than my own and offer different ways of looking at Jesus’ words than I’m used to. Its also helpful in understanding those I interact with regularly.
Ways I try to increase curiosity in myself. Probably the biggest is to look for the things that people do better than myself or my culture and try to understand how that ties in to their own culture/ideas that may differ from my own. Even if I disagree with some points, there is almost always something that I can learn from and take away if I’m willing to listen and try to understand. Different cultures/people have different strengths.
MB
Alesha says:
I believe there must be SOME fundamentals in everyone’s life. I have fundamentals – principles, truths – that I base my life on. These truths come from the Bible.
Men often twist and misconstrue God’s truth to fit their own selfish designs. THAT is not truth. At that point, I can be curious and study to see whether those things are true according to Scripture.
I am often curious as to HOW God is working out certain truths in my life.
But the Truth remains the truth, whether I believe it or not, or am curious about it or not.
If God be God, truly God, He does not change. What He is, IS truth! He is fundamental.
My question then, is this? Is curiosity, in and of itself, a virtue? Am I a more desirable citizen, parishioner, human being, simply because I have no fundamentals; or because I do not choose to attach myself to a group of “fundamentalists”?
Curious people pride themselves that they “think outside the box.”
Fundamentals are not a “box”. They are a foundation.
Alesha
Shaun Groves says:
If we aren’t building the box, if it was built already, then there’s nothing to fear in being curious. Being curious CAN lead us to better understand the true dimensions of the Box.
Fundamentalists, if I’m understanding Seth correctly, ask “Does this fit in my box?” and then discard every idea that doesn’t as “not true.”
The curious, if I’m understanding Seth correctly, ask “Is this true” and if it is and it doesn’t fit their box, they rethink the box.
That’s what I’m understanding Seth to say. Am I off?
If I’m not, then given Seth’s definitions, I’d rather be curious than a fundamentalist
A great example of this curiosity at work in the development of my beliefs is pacifism. When I first heard a Christian say they were a pacifist because of their understanding of the bible, I IMMEDIATELY dismissed the idea because it didn’t fit in my box, which was very patriotic, pragmatic and centered on self-preservation. But, over years of reading, praying, conversing, I began to wonder if my box was wrong, not pacifism.
The Bargain Shopper Lady says:
The video seems to lead me to think that as long as you stop to see if something will fit in your box, you are curious. If you just assume it will/won’t then you are a fundamentalist. I picture the Bible as my box. I almost always seek out the answer and if I can’t find it myself, call my dad. He’s always on his knees and knows the Word well. I keep thinking that this relates to the election and whether you would vote for a person based on religion. Do you know their political views? Do they match yours? Anyone can throw in an “Oh and I’m a Christian” to get a few extra votes. That drives me insane.
Shaun Groves says:
TBSL said…I picture the Bible as my box
Is it the Bible or our interpretation of the Bible or the God who wrote the Bible or our understanding of the God who wrote the Bible that is our box?
Alesha says:
I have no problem with curiosity. If I truly believe something, I have studied it, I have tested it, and I have worked it out in my own life. That truth becomes my fundamental belief. I will measure all information by that truth.
I have a problem with his definition. I understand him to say that if I measure anything by my faith, and accept it or reject it based on that faith, I am a fundamentalist.
Following that line of reasoning, any atheist is a fundamentalist. He rejects God based on his faith that there is no God.
We fool ourselves when we pretend to be full of awe and wonder and curiosity, while judging the “fundamentalist” for their lack of those things. Our judgment of them is based on our faith that they are wrong. By definition, we are therefore a “fundamentalist.”
If believing in absolutes and refusing to be swayed by man’s opinion on those beliefs is the definition of a fundamentalist, then that’s what I guess I am.
I am enjoying this dialogue. Does that make me curious as well?
Alesha
Amy says:
I think that our interpretation of the Bible is our box. Our interpretation can change and so our box can change.
I don’t know. Maybe I’m a fundamentalist. I find that when something challenges my box it’s hard. But at the same time, I’m willing to change my beliefs. BUT, if I’ve wrestled with something enough and come to a place of peace I’m not very willing to revisit it.
In fact, perhaps I am a fundamentalist. I often come to a tenuous “peace” of indecision.
Rick says:
The line between fundamentalist and curious is (I hate this word) relative for each individual. We all have a list fundamental beliefs, some of us just have longer lists.
The real question is, what is a persons tipping point – the point at which a person has uncovered enough information that they no longer need to be curious about it.
Maybe some people don’t have a tipping point, maybe they will always be curious, always searching for a reason to have faith in something, but never having faith.
For other, their tipping point resembles a row of dominoes. A simple sentence can create a book of faith.
David Gray says:
Bill Johnson at Bethel Church, Redding, CA adressed this in the most recent podcast.
Old Covenant is concerned with being contaminated, made unclean by the touch of the unclean.
New Covenant is about the opposite flow, with the life of God flowing into those we touch.
Fundamentalists measure to see if they will be contaminated by the world around them, live in that fear, and miss the heart of the Good News.
The New Covenant allows us to be curious, knowing that we cannot be contaminated.
I am trying to stay out of my old patterns of Old Covenant living.
Roy says:
I think I fall into the Curious point, cause at one point in my life I stopped accepting what was taught to me by my parents, or my teachers, professors, church, etc. And reached out and began to investigate on my own what is the truth, what really is true.
I understand him to say that if I measure anything by my faith, and accept it or reject it based on that faith, I am a fundamentalist.I almost always seek out the answer and if I can’t find it myself.