Shaun Groves
I got a letter in the mail today from someone I’ve had a disagreement with. The letter was kind on the surface but – and maybe I’m reading too much into it – it was only a thin layer of kind covering a gooey slab of disdain for me.
I rarely know I’m right in an argument. I almost always apologize first, sometimes even when I know I shouldn’t. It’s dumb. I’m good at eating crow. Yum, crow.
But this time I know I’m right. It feels weird. I have proof. Digitized, e-mailed, black and white proof. And it feels weird and good. Too good.
I sat down tonight after Becky went to bed early and wrote this (wrong) person an e-mail, not to send, just to write. Do you ever do that? Just to get it off your chest? Everything you’d say if you were merciless and mean and your mamma would never find out? It was one of those.
Then I deleted it.
And I felt OK for a second or two, maybe even a full minute. Then I thought about some of the stuff Brant said in the Shlogcast I just spent hours editing yesterday. I was thinking back to those words, trying to recall them exactly when this little tan Brant(ish) angel appeared on my shoulder there playing the accordion and quoting himself to me verbatim. He was talking about the stuff in the bible that’s hard to follow, the stuff we don’t talk about very often, the crazy stuff: lend and don’t ask for repayment, don’t sue people, if someone takes your stuff don’t ask for it back. Crazy.
As I remembered Brant’s words I thought of more crazy things in the bible we don’t like to hear, like when Jesus says if you entertain and replay thoughts of having sex with someone, well, it’s the same thing as actually having sex with them. And this one’s like it: If you’re angry with someone you’re a murderer. Ouch. Darn you, Brant(ish) angel and your wee accordion of truth.
I’m thinking that blog posts and dinner table gripe sessions and dirty looks and rolled eyes and cold shoulders and e-mails – even the ones that get deleted – are killers. Violence isn’t just the stuff that draws blood and leaves a mark. What does that make me, a supposed pacifist, tonight?
Here’s a hint. Starts with an “h.”
brody says:
horticulturist?
Amy says:
excellent post, and yes, i’ve done that writing letters that I never mean to send stuff.
Anne Jackson says:
darn me and my need to check my email BEFORE reading your blog, shaun.
i got a fabulous email about how i am far too young, haven’t had kids, been charitable, evangelized, established a household, or a career…only screwed up for most of my life – therefore disqualifying me from writing a book on burnout. i think i was even compared to tammy faye. i just kind of skimmed it.
it was 4 in the morning. i am wide awake. choices? go back to my cozy hampton bed or email this sucker back.
i emailed him.
i’m not too much of an angry person but i did clarify some of is misaccusations.
i should have just left it alone.
i could have been sleeping.
rar.
thank you for being smarter than me and reminding me.
peace.
Fred McKinnon says:
Shaun,
Freaky – very freaky. If you get a chance, checkout the post I just did last night on ac180 – I’m a contributor there, it’s a blog for “men who are doing a 180” in their walks ….
I had the same thing happen, only with my wife recently … and because I’d “rehearsed” the argument in my mind (and would never actually SAY IT) … this time, the circumstances were right … and I SAID IT. I’m still in the doghouse. If you think it, ponder it, dwell on in, rehearse it long enough – it gives birth.
Fred (Worship Leader – SSI, Georgia)
Shawn Bashor says:
“What does that make me, a supposed pacifist, tonight?
Here’s a hint. Starts with an “h.””
Would the answer that starts with an “h” to that question be “hell yeah?”
Shawn Bashor says:
Wasn’t sure if it was heretic or hypocrite or “hell yeah it makes you a supposed pacivist tonight,” but for me to call you a heretic or a hypocrite would be totally judgemental and I am trying not to be that way.
This by the way is really hard.
So I guess it just makes you “h” for “human.” oh no the secret is it, Mr. Shaun Groves is human.
Jay Adkins says:
Dude, that happens to me all the time. Just means you’re human. Thank God that He forgives us for being idiots!
Redneck Neighbor says:
The same thing…really?!?!? Boy do I have some explaining to do.
Scott says:
First, isn’t righteous anger just that? Wasn’t Jesus angry when he cleared the temple of the money changers? How would a pacifist have handled/reconciled that? Just curious.
Anyway, I have a 24 hour rule for e-mails written out of frustration. If I wait 24 hours and the thing still seems like a good idea to send, then I send it. I’ve maybe sent one of those e-mails and it was heavily reworded after the 24 hour period.
Most often times that I invoke the 24 hour rule, the message stays in my “drafts” folder to mock me….even when I am right. I realize that my sending the e-mail will not change the situation and/or mind of the receiver and thus it is just for my ego that I would send it.
If the purpose is to satisfy my ego, then I’ve got bigger problems than the person in the “To:” field…..
Shaun Groves says:
The temple story is one that gets brought up a lot by non-pacifists. There are two main understandings of the story I’ve run across.
1)Jesus was angry, made a whip, and pushed people out of the temple because he was angry a their selling access to God by selling animals God required people to offer as sacrifice to Him.
2)Jesus made a whip and acted out a parable. This was one form of Rabbinical teaching – acting out a story instead of telling. In this case some (David Flusser, Brad H. Young for example) think Jesus was acting out God’s future destruction of the temple, prophesied in the Old Testament. Sounded crazy to me at first until I read their research and other instances of rabbiis in Jesus’ era acting out parables.
Two theories. Take your pick.
Either way you and – humans, not divine godmen – are commanded again and again not to be angry. For more on that read this clever post by somebody else.
http://branthansen.typepad.com/letters_from_kamp_krusty/2007/08/test-anger.html
Just Matt says:
According of Truth…now that is just plain awesome..and also a rad name for a band.
Just Matt says:
accordion..sorry.
Anon says:
I probably fall under the category of people who send that e-mail most often… but often it’s not about someone is right or wrong, it’s about emotions. I think that in itself makes my angry e-mails worse to send. Imagine if we actually thought “What would Jesus do?” Before everything we did and said? I think eventually we’d get pretty close to perfect. That is unless, we let the flesh win over the spirit.
Scott says:
We are commanded to forgive quickly and not to be angry men (i.e. given to or quick to anger: see Proverbs 14:17…keyword “SOON”) I don’t believe that suggests that anger is in and of itself a sin. Of course, I could be wrong. Just because a person gives to the poor every once in a while doesn’t make him generous. Just because a person gets angry doesn’t make him an angry man.
As a pacifist, what are your thoughts on Ecc 3:3 thru 8?
I read the following thoughts on Ephesians 4:26-27 that I think are interesting:
Eph 4:26 Be angry, and do not sin. Do not let the sun go down upon your wrath,
Eph 4:27 neither give place to the Devil.
“A curious fact is that both verbs are imperatives. “Be angry” is grammatically parallel with “sin not.” So what Paul is saying is not, “If you do happen to experience this, here is how to handle it.” A better paraphrase would be, “When you get angry–as I assume you will–make sure you do not sin.” So obviously Anger is not a sin in itself. An even better paraphrase then would be, “Learn to be angry without sinning–even as Jesus did.”
We have to remember that emotions are natural occurrences that are not wrong in themselves. And this applies to all of them. A good analogy would be with the principle that “every good and perfect gift comes from above.” NOTHING that God made is evil. Nothing. But those good gifts become the occasion of evil to us when we pursue them in the wrong amount, at the wrong time, or in the wrong way. Likewise, every natural emotion that God designed our bodies to produce has an appropriate object. There are no exceptions–not even hatred. But we must attach those feelings to their appropriate objects, and this, as fallen people, we do not naturally do any more. We are to hate the sin–not the sinner. We are to love God, our neighbors, God’s gifts–not the world for its own sake. As C. S. Lewis explained it, our emotions–or insitncts–are like the keys of a piano. There are no “right” keys or “wrong” keys. All the keys are right at some times, but not at others. The moral law is like the tune we are supposed to be playing. So the same B flat that made a beautiful harmony in measure one may create a terrible discord in measure five. Its “rightness” is determined by where you are in the song. So it can be very right for a man to indulge his sexual appetite with his spouse, but horribly wrong for him to press the same key and play the same note if he is not married or if he is with someone else.
Now, Anger is no exception to this rule. It is an inevitable part of life, with its own appropriate objects, which we will look at in a moment. You cannot eliminate it, and should not try; but you should learn to handle it wisely and channel it appropriately. And this we will try to do in the coming moments.”
Shaun Groves says:
Scott, good stuff to ponder there. I do some of that and perhaps get back to you if I have anything halfway worth reading to write.
You asked though: As a pacifist, what are your thoughts on Ecc 3:3 thru 8?
Thanks for question. The answers kinda simplistic, I admit, but it satisfies me. Here it is. Yep, there’s a time for war and a time for hate. It’s not now.
See? I told you it was simplistic. Satisfyingly so.
Slightly less simplistic: Now’s the time for “beating swords into plowshares” and giving “sight to the blind” and being “good news to the poor.” The kingdom has come (Mark 1) and is still coming.
I have a question about your comments on anger…actually about your anger. Here it is: What makes you angry and why? Start with the last time you were angry. Let’s use that as a starting place and work backwards to form a theological/biblical argument. Screwy I know, but bear with me.
Shaun Groves says:
Scott, let me add this on the pacifism thing: Christian pacifists, at least the ones I’ve read and spoken with, do not claim that violence was never perpetrated by God or God’s people in accordance with God’s command. The assertion many of us make is that God is not commanding this of us now. Make sense?
Scott says:
“Christian pacifists, at least the ones I’ve read and spoken with, do not claim that violence was never perpetrated by God or God’s people in accordance with God’s command. The assertion many of us make is that God is not commanding this of us now. Make sense?”
I’ll buy that.
“What makes you angry and why? Start with the last time you were angry.”
Hmmmm…. Not sure if these are anger or frustration…. Probably a bit of both, if that makes sense?
I have four pretty typical examples of the sort of thing that makes me angry. I share these at the risk of sounding like an angry man, which I am not
. Sarcastic, yes. Angry, no…not usually.
I was angry with the mother of a couple of boys at our church, because she loves liquor and “living la vida loca” apparently more than she loves her own sons. Recently having been released from jail and reunited with them, she still finds it acceptable… even preferable… to leave them home alone and hungry, while she tailgates with the Titans! Go team!
I was angry with my friend and former pastor for leaving his wife and three kids for a “Proverbs 5” girl from California. I was angry with myself for not seeing it coming and for not knowing what to do about it.
I was angry with a visiting preacher for what I believe was manipulating someone into a likely false conversion (innoculating them against Christ), so he can chisel one more “souls saved” into his tombstone and so the church has a better shot at earning the trophy for most baptisms in a church with fewer than 400 people in Sunday worship. No lie. There is actually a trophy for that.
I am angered by the way that Christian Church U.S.A., Inc. (painting with a broad brush stroke here) seems more interested in playing countryclub/church than doing God’s work.
Shaun Groves says:
Alright, Scott, you’re officially a better person than I. I got angry when a guy sent me a letter stating, essentially, that my booking company and I had lied to him. He lied in the letter to make his case. Pissed me off.
Using my example and not yours…Let’s suppose anger is not a bad thing. Suppose. Let’s look at my entire situation and ask another question: Was I doing anything else wrong, thinking anything else wrong? Yea. I was. I was thinking my reputation is worth defending. I was thinking my reputation matters. I was thinking this guy, made by God the same as me, is worse than me.
So, my anger was the result of wrong thinking. To be more specific, my anger, and I believe ALL anger, was the result of not being what Jesus calls “meek.” My anger came from wanting to be in control, thinking I’m worth more than someone else, thinking my value and rights must be defended. Meekness is being a dog on God’s leash – not without value, but dependent only upon God’s action to give me value. It’s a surrendering of all control and all rights for obedience to God. it’s commitment to God’s way and will and a denial of my own.
Can you be angry, at anyone and be meek? Can you believe you have no rights and be angry when your rights are violated? Can you believe God is God and be angry at and ready to punish those who break the rules?
I don’t know for certain, but in my own life, I can’t think of a time I’ve been angry for purely “righteous” reasons. It’s sometimes a mix, but never pure. There’s at least some inkling of self-righteousness or right demanding or control taking in me when I’m angry.
But that’s me.
Scott says:
If you’ll take back that “Alright, Scott, you’re officially a better person than I.” comment, I would be glad to share with you a bucket full of examples where I was not meek and let my selfish pride and anger damage my witness.
Hmmmmm….Given your situation…
It’s your reputation, but I happen to think it is worth defending and in some cases righteous to defend. Not because you are a soft rock hero of mine, but because you are a preacher/missionary who God is working through. To slander your ministry is (in my humble opinion) blasphemous to the One who works through you. I wouldn’t feel it appropriate to defend your choice of clothing, hair style (or lack thereof), or musical style, BUT when someone damages your reputation publicly and attacks your integrity, that means that fewer kids will eat via Compassion. Does it not? If Shaun Groves is a liar and he works with Compassion, THEN Compassion works with liars???? Somebody is thinking, “I’ll just keep my $32 a month!”
I’m glad your not a spoiled brat who whines when he doesn’t get his way, but please consider that what you are doing for the kingdom could sometimes be more important than your own desire not to be perceived as not meek.
Makes me think of….
“The price paid for falling is more than my stumbles.”
You have to guard your reputation more closely as the world is watching and waiting….maybe not for words, but for worse. Satan would love nothing more than to frustrate God’s work through you by damaging your public reputation. True or not, that is what people who don’t know you or the truth will judge you and thus the work that you are doing by.
Would you defend your reputation if someone alleged that you had cheated on your wife and beat your kids? If so, to what extent? The Bible gives us examples of how to resolve disputes between Christians, so that leads me to believe that sometimes disputes need to be resolved.
I could not let someone slander my pastor (not because he is a good guy and snappy dresser), but because he is God’s shepherd for our flock. His reputation is worth defending. His office is worth defending, because God appointed him to it.
I appreciate that you don’t want to fight this battle with the person in your example. It is meek to not desire and look forward to a fight/arguement & etc…. but is it not meek when you are forced to defend yourself or someone else?
If my next door neighbor is beating his wife in the front yard and she is pleading for help, should I come to her defense using force, if required? It happened to me. I didn’t want to use force against the man, but I couldn’t let her take more beating. What else could I do?
“Can you believe God is God and be angry at and ready to punish those who break the rules?”
Didn’t God sometimes use people to act as judges and mete out punishment to those who broke His rules?
Pro 31:9 Open your mouth, judge righteously, and plead the cause of the poor and needy.
Alas, thank you so much for the time and thoughtfullness with which you have answered my questions. I hope that I have not offended you.