“We who were formerly no people at all, and who knew of no peace, are now called to be…a church…of peace. True Christians do not know vengeance. They are the children of peace. Their hearts overflow with peace. Their mouths speak peace, and they walk in the way of peace.”
-Menno Simons (founder of the Mennonite tradition)
Disclaimer: All dialogue is based on my best recollection and could not possibly be word-for-word exactly what was said. But it’s dang close. Unfortunately, I do not record every conversation I have and my memory is that of a thirty-eight year-old with poor diet and exercise habits. Keep this in mind.
“…comes to live with us and die for us and live through us down here.”
The last question of the night came from an articulate young woman who kindly let me know my language had offended her. “Mankind.” “Him” and “He” when speaking about God. So much masculine language she believed was unnecessary and offensive. By the show of hands when I asked how many others were put off by this, she was far from the only one who felt this way.
And I felt like an elephant in a minefield. A drunk elephant. A blind drunk elephant.
One of many ways to see God’s will done on earth as it is in Heaven is to sponsor a child. *Boom* Commercials don’t belong in chapel.
We are separated from God and deserving of Hell. *Boom* That’s unloving and outdated language.
Jesus alone can rescue and reunite us with God. *Boom* That’s intolerant of other faiths.
He loves us so much that He gave His one and only Son so that whoever believes in Him will not perish but will have eternal life. *Boom* That’s gender biased.
That old inner critic grabbed his bullhorn and began to shout. I felt like a failure, like I’d let down the chaplain, missed an opportunity to connect with students at EMU, like because of my sloppy communication and insensitivity and ignorance and lack of discernment more kids weren’t released from poverty through sponsorship. I’d blown it. Boom.
A tiny sampling of the student body – three – had written less than positively in the school paper about my time on campus. A small number of students – three – had challenged from the microphone. But the guy with the bullhorn told me these students spoke for all of Eastern Mennonite University.
But what about the students I had such a great time with at lunch today? “Exceptions,” that guy said. “The minority.” (That guy’s neurotic.)
I invited the students to hang around and keep the conversation going, to talk with me in private if there was something on their mind they didn’t feel confortable sharing from a microphone in front of others. Then I stepped off the stage scared. That’s incredibly embarrassing to admit. But there it is. I don’t have stage fright. I have off-the-stage fright.
I expected the worst.
I got the best.
I saw the chaplain first and sheepishly asked if it went OK. “I wasn’t sure what you wanted me to do?” He was gracious, smiling, encouraging.
That guy didn’t put down his bullhorn though.
Then I met a young Mennonite woman who asked me to clarify a few things for her. She wasn’t sure what I meant by “cross-shaped” faith. Soon we were discussing the difference between doing things for God and living life with God. She said she’d gotten so passionate about the horizontal aspect of her faith that she might have neglected the vertical. She wasn’t sure. I told her I struggle with that very thing since reading the Mennonites a few years ago and embracing their aims of peace making and mercy showing, frugality and generosity. I ran full-force toward these new ideas and sometimes have neglected Jesus.
Common ground.
I wrote her name on my hand in pen and promised to pray for her. By the end of the night my hand was full of names.
A few Mennonite students assured me the debaters at the microphone and the newspaper didn’t speak for them or the majority on campus. The guy with the bullhorn gave up the fight. I felt every joint in my body slack. My defenses came down. My arms uncrossed. A student, maybe noticing the change in me, said she felt more confortable talking to me off stage. She said onstage my body language and tone of voice felt agressive. I apologized. We laughed about it. She explained with a smile, “Mennonites don’t like conflict. We probably mistake excitement for anger sometimes. Don’t worry about it.”
Another student said that she’d learned in a peace making class of some sort that there has to be equality between the parties. My being on stage and the students being in chairs down below didn’t make her feel equal. She thought that my being a speaker and them having less experience talking in front of crowds gave me an unfair advantage too.
Maybe all this is why so few students spoke at the microphone. Even students who were for me might have been too intimidated to say so.
I continued to mingle and take names. Now very aware of how much I wave my arms around when I’m talking, how my eyebrows fly up and down too, how I lean in when I speak, how my voice rises when I get excited, and how I’m always excited when ideas and stories are being batted around.
A few students wanted to explain why they didn’t sponsor a child too. They were already giving, doing, going so much already. I knew this was true by now. My first morning on campus, when so few students sponsored child, I thought I’d done something wrong. All that talk in chapel about heaven and hell and Jesus being the only way to God might have upset a small number of students enough that they didn’t sponsor a child. Maybe. But after two days at EMU I knew now that these students were the most compassionate I’d ever met. I’ve spoken at nearly 50 schools now and I’ve never seen one so thoroughly working compassion and generosity into campus life and curriculum.
The explanations were good to hear but not necessary. It was good to tell them, face-to-face, that I understood and was amazed at all they were already doing.
Several closeted evangelicals talked to me separately throughout the evening too. They all expressed gratitude. They felt as if they’d been represented on campus for the first time, as if someone had translated them to the rest of the student body, and that had given them courage to continue the conversation after I left. They felt as if they’d previously been a misunderstood – and maybe maligned – minority on campus. “There’s a lot of talk here about tolerance,” one young woman told me. “Other races. We have a group for LGBT students. Other religions. But I don’t feel like evangelicals are treated that way. Only a few people even know what I believe.”
There is a lot of talk of tolerance at EMU. My road manager, Micah, commented on that more than once. And he wisely observed that tolerance isn’t love. “If someone asked me what I think of Shaun,” he told the chaplain, “and I said I tolerate him, how would that sound to Shaun?”
With Micah’s words on my mind, I told a few students I hoped something more profound than tolerance could be experienced at EMU between Evangelicals and Mennonites. And it was that night.
I found the young man who’d asked such great questions from the microphone about what it means to be made in the image of God, and how I define “sinfulness.” I learned his name and shook his hand. He told me he was as Mennonite as they come. But when another student clarified – “More ethnically Mennonite” – he laughed and agreed that maybe that was more true these days. He was still figuring out what he believed and he admitted some of what he thinks these days is outside of traditional Mennonite theology.
Most of us are still figuring out what we believe aren’t we? Shouldn’t we? But most of us aren’t part of a community whose acceptance makes us brave enough to do it out loud and from a microphone.
We rehashed parts of our debate. I think he was frustrated by my inability to understand his point of view. He said he’s not nearly as comfortable speaking as he is writing, and asked if he could put his thoughts down in an e-mail and keep the dialogue going with me that way. “Absolutely. I’d love that.”
He’d spoken in such short fast sentences before. But now, more at ease maybe, he spoke more freely and I got a better sense of who he was, what he was like as a person and not just a collection of words and ideas. He was brilliant. He said he’s been reading N.T. Wright and when I asked how he liked it he just shrugged, “He’s OK.” Brilliant.
And not as heretical as I perceived him to be at the microphone. I won’t put words in his mouth now – his beliefs are still hard for me grasp in detail – but I know from talking with him that this young man loves God and wants to understand God better. He believes Jesus is God’s Son, that Jesus died on the cross, that he rose again. But where we may differ is that he may say all this was not the only or main thing Jesus came to do. And I think when he said from the microphone that Jesus didn’t have to die, he wasn’t saying human beings weren’t in need of a savior but that God could have saved us another way if God wanted to.
Ahhh, I see now. I don’t agree, but I see. So much better to talk face-to-face.
This young man – and others I talked to that night – may disagree with me on a number of things. Who wouldn’t? But he’s my brother. God is his father. Christ is his King. And we are family.
Almost everyone at EMU turned out to be family. We just had to go through hell and back to the cross together to see it. Face-to-face.
Now, about that third article…




“Most of us are still figuring out what we believe aren’t we? Shouldn’t we? But most of us aren’t part of a community whose acceptance makes us brave enough to do it out loud and from a microphone.”
A to the Men.
I love my church family. I know they love me. But I don’t know that I could stand up at a microphone and disagree with my friend/pastor about anything of substance if he asked me to. Pretty special that it happens at EMU.
I _could_ but things would be mighty weird thereafter!
Heck…to some extent, that’s where I am right now, although I didn’t disagree from a microphone.
I really enjoy your blog. While it was somewhat maddening to wait for each next installment of this series, the thing I really appreciate about your blog (besides your humor and fun) is that you manage to fit so much great stuff into such succinct posts. This story would’ve been too long to read all at once and so much would get missed. Plus, it’s kinda nice to have something more to look forward to
I always get so much out of your blog posts, but it doesn’t require tons of time reading and searching to get at it. That’s an art, in my opinion.
You know, this post was the hardest to write. I wrote the last one (about the debate over the image of God etc ) the nest day so I wouldn’t forget what took place. And the very next post I wrote was this one here. It helped me write the others to know the good place we we were going to land in the end.
But it’s still too long. I’d rather go long on the hopeful post though than the others huh?
Thanks for the encouragement this morning, Kit. This has been a fruitful exercise for me but so good to know it has been for you too.
I second everything Kit said. I have been hanging on every word written and looking forward to every new post. In fact, I get to the end and think “don’t let this be the end!”.
There’s one more before the end. And it’s the best.
Thanks for reading along, Amy.
This one is longer than most but I didn’t notice that until later, because it was such a good read!
I used to get in trouble in high school and college because I couldn’t make my papers come out to the proper length requirements, I’d make my point too soon and didn’t want to just fluff and repeat myself until I wrote the appropriate # of pages! Brevity should be considered more of a positive gift! (of course, if you ask my husband, I have since lost this gift now, ha ha!)
If you ask my wife…I never had it ; )
Shaun,
Do you have a reading list posted somewhere?
I don’t but I could put one together. What kind of reading list?
You seem to use a lot of quotes from different authors and I was just curious to see what’s on your bookshelf.
I’m also curious to see which authors have influenced you the most and why.
I can put together a list sometime. My pleasure.
Shaun,
I’m with the others that I love the installment posts, no matter how many times I loudly sigh at the end, knowing I have to wait for the “rest of the story”.
But as I read each installment, a knot in my stomach grows as I worry about the thinking of these students and their Universalist ideas of why Jesus came to Earth. I’m so sad for those that miss the real Good News about Jesus. It’s becoming such a battle for young adults… the tolerance, the politeness of not wanting to exclude anyone from the Kingdom of God, the confusing messages…
Did you get this feeling at all or is it just me?
I got that feeling a great deal when I read a couple of the articles in the paper and during the dialogue from microphones at the coffeehouse.
But…
Now that I’ve talked with students face-to-face and via e-mail I think they are more orthodox (not sure what word to use there) than I’d first thought. There may be some “Universalis” but that’s not the dominant view.
We really can’t say “they” or say there is a dominant view though. EMU is a very diverse campus. I love that! And even among the Mennonite students there is diversity of thought.
Part of the confusion in conversation for me came (comes) in how some of them speak. Sometimes so vague and devoid of “I believe…” statements that it seemed they believed something very strange and all-encompassing. But as I’ve pressed, asked questions, begged for detail, I’ve gotten it. Slowly, I’m understanding. They just speak about faith so differently from evangelicals in my neck of the woods that it almost seemed like another religion at times. But its not.
I’m learning to reserve judgment of ideas until I actually know what the heck they are! And it’s hard for me. I lack the patience for ambiguity ; ) I like black and white concrete statements of fact. I don’t get a lot of that from the students I’m dialoguing with from EMU right now.
That’s not a criticism. But it is a difference that makes understanding hard for me.
I would venture a guess that what you experienced at EMU is likely in many places— there are a variety of viewpoints among young people, but perhaps some of them “step up to the microphone” more than others
so we don’t necessarily get a full view or understanding sometimes.
I am, too, a member of the “concrete black and white” team… Something I need to work on… I’m grateful for the dialogue you’ve inspired and I welcome the lessons in those dialogues!!
Can’t wait for the next installment! Thanks Shaun!
It sure makes me sad, too, Jennifer. I admire the students but I want it all for them, not just the horizontal. He says the best is yet to come and that keeps me hopeful.
Amen, sister!! Can’t wait to see what that looks like… =)
“She thought that my being a speaker and them have less experience talking in front of crows gave me an unfair advantage too.”
So do you practice all of your sermons out in the cornfields?
You ALWAYS manage to find my mistakes. I’m mostly thankful for that, Keith.
You’re mostly welcome.
Hey Shaun,
Thanks so much for these posts. I was one of the volunteers in the morning chapel and as it was my first official Compassion event, I had no idea what to expect. And I had no idea that so much else was going on in the following days. I look forward to the following installment(s).
I’d love any feedback you might have on how I could have communicated more effectively, Jenn. All ears.
Thanks for serving us at EMU.
This is a great series! Thank you for sharing this experience with us. I am thinking a lot these days about what I believe and how I express that to others. How many times have I accidentally offended someone so badly as to have shut down true communication? Thanks for this.
This post was good for my heart to read. After talking with a dear friend last night and hearing him basically say that Jesus came not to atone for our sins primarily, but to get us to live the Sermon on the Mount, I was pretty shredded. It seemed that everywhere I have been in the last week has had a conversation about universalism and how social justice matters more than the cross, how we can’t trust the Bible to really be God’s actual words to us and how religion and Christian are four letter words. My husband and I talked until the wee hours of the morning trying to understand how orthodoxy is fading away from our closest circles. And we couldn’t understand how one can be blinded to the fact that when Jesus saves a life that all the social justice and Sermon on the Mount living flows out of that salvation from a life that is grateful for it and compelled to be Jesus’ hands and feet in our world. It did my heart good to come here and read that it is not dead entirely. =)
Shaun!
I have LOVED your voice, and I don’t mean your singing voice (although I love that too), but your voice…your well thought out, slow to speak perspective, since I bought Invitation to Eavesdrop. I love things like blind, drunk elephant in a minefield….BUT what I think I love most is the way you allow love to grow and flow…that you don’t let offense or that punk with the bullhorn to close your heart to the hearts of those around you. Thank you for your ministry. Thank you for sharing your ministry in this blog. Thank you for walking out your ministry for all to see and for seeking where you may walk imperfectly and for doing what you can to straighten that out. BEAUTIFUL! Praising God for His creatures this morning after this read!
Shaun,
Thank you for your humility, honesty, and willingness to share the truth that God has put you in a position to proclaim. I’ve greatly appreciated this series of blogs. How I wish I had more time to talk with people in the manner in which you got to in this post.
Awesome!
With all the genuine love and respect that a comment box can hold, I want to say the following:
I’m not sure that NT Wright himself would disagree with the nuanced comments of the male student/speaker. Sometimes, I have found, that the more freedom allowed for dialogue – combined with upper-level theological education – the less the individual is able to communicate in a black/white or simplistic manner. It is certainly not universalism, but it *is* careful and it is nuanced. I came from a very black/and white theological background, so sometimes that type of thinking is scary for me. I think, though, if we can be slow to label and work at listening more carefully, we can realize that the individual is not throwing everything out of the window, is not rejecting the Gospel nor the orthodox tenets of Christianity – they are simply looking at the entire picture from a different angle.
NT Wright specifically says that Jesus did not come *only* to be born, live, be crucified, take away our sins, be raised again, then go away to heaven to make a place for us to go someday. That is part of it, to be sure. But Jesus is even more than that – He came to fulfill all things, to be the King of the world, the King of the universe, the King of all things. His latest book, Simply Jesus, speaks specifically to this topic. It is brilliant – just like the man himself; but neither it nor he are universalist nor new age nor “watered down.”
Thanks for taking the time, Shaun, to hear these students. Most people wouldn’t go that extra mile. It sounds like there were (and are) some real breakthroughs in terms of communication and growth on both sides! That is wonderful!
Reading all six posts in succession, without the start/stop of cliffhanger, allowed me to hear this story without interruption (well, except when my internet went out for a while. Ha! I *still* had to wait on a cliff for a bit…!).
Your response makes me wonder what other responses to this student body have looked like; were they as earnest to understand, to dialogue, to persist in finding common ground? Or were they cloaked in judgment or intolerance? Who knows.
Sounds to me like these very bright students are processing out loud, sifting noise and errant teaching, trying to find their way through faith’s mysterious dense forest. They’re mining gems; they’re trying to identify the real from counterfeit.
They remind me that asking questions, questioning, isn’t a bad thing; sometimes it’s the vehicle to very good things.
Shaun, you handled it the way I’ve become accustomed to observing you respond; carefully, care-fully, graciously, engaged, lovingly, honestly, directly, truth-seekingly.
It was a transforming work for some (were you at the front of the line?).
Wonderful series….(looking forward to the end)
.
I am a student at EMU and it has been very interesting as an “insider” to read both your blog, Shaun, and the comments following them. Unfortunately, I didn’t get to your chapel because I had practicum, but I got to the second part of your coffeehouse on that Thursday night. The students who spoke at the mic were some of my close friends and so I must admit that when I first heard the discourse between all of you, I felt pretty defensive on their behalves. As I’ve read your blogs I have felt a range of emotions, but this last one was really beautifully written. I appreciate your willingness to see things from our point of view and I hope that I can continue to see yours.
Several of the posts above have talked about the “universalist” views of the EMU student body and I want to respond to that briefly. Shaun was right when he said that there is a very wide range of theological perspectives offered at EMU…the universalist one is probably a minority. It just so happens that the voices that were heard at the coffeehouse were some of the more liberal ones. But also, so what if some people at EMU hold universalist views? Does that make their faith any less valid or strong? I think not.
As a Mennonite, I really appreciate our focus on social justice, service, compassion/love and peace…these are things about God and faith that are non-negotiables for me. I’ve wrestled a great deal with the beliefs that I grew up with over the past few years since I left home, but I’ve always held to the belief that if I focus my life on service, compassion, peace, etc, my life will be rich and full. Those are the facets of Christianity that make me excited! DOING something makes me excited much more than just sitting around talking about things. But my focus on those “social-justicey” things do not make my faith in God any less real or valid.
Shaun, I am glad you came to speak at EMU…Mennonites sometimes shy away from conflict and tension, but we need it! I wish you could be around right now to see some of the dialogue that is happening right now as a result of your visit–it is really a beautiful thing. Finding common ground with someone is a beautiful thing!
By the way, I want to add that I still have much to learn, many questions that need answers (that may never get answers!) and so I do not claim to have it all figured out. At the same time, I hope I never do “have it all figured out”. Then life would be really boring…!