Disclaimer: All dialogue is based on my best recollection and could not possibly be word-for-word exactly what was said. But it’s dang close. Unfortunately, I do not record every conversation I have and my memory is that of a thirty-eight year-old with poor diet and exercise habits. Keep this in mind.
The chaplain at Eastern Mennonite University assured me that everything had gone well at chapel, despite the lack of sponsorships and conversation afterward.
That night I played a concert designed by the chaplain to bring families from the community onto campus. It was not a concert for students and, as planned, very few of them showed up. But moms and dads and children sure did. I sang some songs, told some jokes, shared a few stories and nearly got all choked up hearing the four-part harmonies coming from the crowd of hymn singers. Wow, the Mennonites can sing! And so many great conversations in the lobby afterward. A great close to day one at EMU.
The next morning the chaplain handed Micah, my road manager, a school newspaper. “Shaun Groves Performs Cliche Christian Pop Concert” one headline said. “What Was I Saved From?” another headline questioned. And a third article, “Reflection on Chapel”, called heaven and hell “worn out metaphors.”
While Micah read, I, blissfully unaware, spoke at the campus’ seminary. It was a little gathering of thirty-ish seminarians, thinking together about the New Testament’s models for giving and going to serve the poor. There was a real connection with students at the seminary, warm greetings, great conversation, new friends made.
I’d moved past the previous day and was feeling good about how day two was going when Micah handed me the school paper.
“This makes me angry,” Micah said. “You might not want to read it,” he warned. But the chaplain had asked him to pass it on to me with good reason. The chaplain had scheduled a second concert for that evening, a concert for students this time, in the coffeehouse on campus. He wanted it to be as much “dialogue” as music. And he was excited that students were already talking.
I read the first writer’s criticism that my songs didn’t say anything she hadn’t heard before. I read the second writer’s anger at hearing me teach that a person needs saving at all. I read the third writer’s critique of heaven and hell.
And I got it.
Some students at EMU were upset, but not with me. They were against what I represented to them: evangelical Christianity.
To some of them, I represented a brand of faith they associated with compassionless conversion, faith without ethics. All vertical and no horizontal. My very presence on campus made some angry.
And I would soon hear all about it.
I found two of the writers on Facebook and messaged them privately, inviting them to talk through our differences publicly at the concert/dialogue that night or privately on-line if they preferred.
And as I did, I couldn’t help noticing the writer with strong opinions on generic pop music was a fan of Relient K, Skillet and…the Jonas Brothers?
Yea, this is about something bigger than music. Bigger than me.





Whoooeee boy! I got mad for you!
“Some students at EMU were upset, but not with me. They were against what I represented to them: evangelical Christianity.”
And see now, that right there is why you do what you do, and why I don’t do what you do. I take stuff like that waaaay too personally and I’da been outta there ‘fore they could say “Pentecostal.”
Obviously…God knows what He’s doing…thank Him for that. My word…all my southern came out and I mighta moved my neck a coupla times!
I cannot WAIT to hear how this turns out.
I also wanted to mention the small little thrill I got when I saw that I was the first to comment.
And now I’m wondering if this comment is under the TMI heading…
Want to hear something funny? Yesterday the Holy Spirit said “Jessica, PM Shaun and tell him that his music isn’t mediocre.” And I said, “Sure thing, Holy Spirit, in just a minute, I’m doing something…”
Ahem.
Shaun, All is Grace is boss.
I’m thankful that by God’s grace you are bold enough to teach about how heaven and hell are real, so much more than metaphors. I hope those students were willing to talk and listen to God and his words through you.
And, truthfully, I’m drawn to the message of your music and the music itself because they’re not cliche.
You’ve got me hooked. Looking forward to hearing the rest of the story.
You post yesterday was so familiar. I was raised in church and had a “robust Christian ethic but not a growing relationship with Christ.” Then one day as I was working through a bible study, God showed me that there was MUCH more!
I see my children caught in the same kind of deception. Having been raised in the church they *think* they’ve got it figured out. I pray daily and anticipate their encounter.
My wife and I graduated from EMU. Your experience, unfortunately, doesnt surprise me. EMU was a good school for us but it is a liberal school. The Mennonite church has sadly gone so far down the road of ‘peace and justice’ that it no longer seems like an orthodox denomination to me. Although this ‘christian-egalitarian-humanism’ approach is not unique to Mennonites (read Rob Bell’s book on Hell for example). The EMU campus has long emphasized ‘celebration of the individual’ instead of encouraging ‘denial of the self’. What are we being saved from? This question clearly reveals one’s image of their self-worth. We gotta understand that Jesus comes to save us, rather than coming to help us help others.
Shaun, this series is so fascinating to me because we are working and serving about an hour from EMU and in a very similar college culture. I find it interesting and exciting to engage a culture that is tired of cliches and wants nothing to do with evangelical Christianity. This culture does, however,respond to love and truth lived out honestly and in relationships. I have learned alot about myself and God here. I am very interested in the rest of this story.
* You have loved us, so we love …
* You have blessed us, so we bless …
* You have given all, so we give all.
While I can and will admit to listening to Skillet, I don’t see them (or others) singing/talking about our responsibility to others that flow from the abundance we receive from Christ. Piper comes close, but he avoids “responsibility” and puts it as “desire.”
As a word of encouragement, I have been chewing on the concept of living on daily manna and sharing the remainder since I heard you mention that several months ago. It was one of those “a ha” moments, and I really haven’t been the same since.
You know, I sat in church for over 30 years, hungry for God’s word and thinking I was being fed. They had the big productions. They had all the current music. They had good speakers. But all they were selling was baby food. Conversion. Pray the prayer. I didn’t even know what it MEANT to be discipled until I started listening to a couple of TV pastors (Joseph Prince and Andrew Wommack) who teach scripture upon scripture and show me God’s love all throughout the bible. (I came from a church with sermons like HOW TO HAVE A HAPPY MARRIAGE and “illustrated” it with points that might have a scripture reference. (Like Rev 2, where it talks about your first love—talk about taking scripture out of context, using it to fit your sermon instead of using your sermon to reveal what the scripture really stands for)
Now I have no patience with such teaching—-Jesus said to go out and make “disciples” of all nations—and once I started listening to someone who was REALLY teaching me God’s word, showing me His incredible love in a way I never saw, and unveiling to me what is now mine BECAUSE of what Jesus did on the cross, I am on fire and in love with my God like I have never been before.
And the bible makes sense to me now. Before it was a jumble of history and inspiring words, but I couldn’t say with all truth that I believed it was the word of God (it might have been messed up thru the centuries of translations) NOW, I have no doubts, there is not one unnecessary word in His word, it is full of meaning and promise.
It sounds to me like these students have had a lot of doctrine thrown at them, but how many of them have been truly discipled? How many of them could tell you what Gods promises to them are now? (Like in psalm 103, He heals all your diseases, forgives all your sins, redeems you from the pit, crowns you with glory and honor, satisfies your desires with good things, so that your strength is renewed like an eagles….) How many of them really know how God looks at them? That “In this way, love is made complete among us so that may have confidence on the day of judgement BECAUSE AS HE IS SO ARE WE IN THIS WORLD”. (1 John 4:17) I can’t tell you how many times I figured I must have messed up, because I couldn’t feel God, so I had to try and get right with Him. The above verse was so freeing—is Jesus acceptable to God right now? As he is, so am I in this world. Is Jesus pleasing to God? As he is, so am I in this world.
30 years sitting in a church, and I never heard that once. It was always “Gotta get yourself right with God”. And no one ever challenged the pastor on that—that Jesus had already done the work. I am ALWAYS right with God—if I mess up, God and I are still tight. How much time I wasted, trying to get myself “right with God” when I could have been telling others how good He is! (But now, I am sharing His goodness with my 3 kids, ages 6 to 16, and THEY love it)
Give those students some meat, Shaun!
I don’t think I’ve ever heard lyrics such as “whores reach out for another lover” or “lay me down with the liars… ’cause I’m no better” in any other Christian music, which is one of the reasons I really like your stuff. It is challenging and human and genuine. Definitely not cliche.
I also really like the fact that you’re not overly evangelical – by which I mean you are who you are and you try to live according to what you believe in as honest a fashion as possible. Your posts are always thoughtful and you never try to shove anything down anyone’s throat about what they should or shouldn’t believe. You just get on with it.
I am so often challenged by your blog, humbled, intrigued, or given the opportunity to investigate something further. Thank you
My music is generic pop music. I’m thankful you see small differences between my words and those of others, but, really, it’s still pop music. And all pop music is generic. There is nothing original about those four chords! Doesn’t mean it can’t be useful. Thanks for the testimony about how mine has been in your life, Zoe.
And I’m also very evangelical. I’m not sure how that word is supposed to be defined. But the students I spoke with at EMU think of evangelicals as basing everything on the atonement of Christ. In that sense, I’m evangelical. Apart from Christ I can do nothing.
; )
Maybe I don’t mean evangelical (because I’d put myself in that category too, really). Maybe it’s just that there are so many who bash other people over the head with how they ought to behave, or how they ought to think, and they like to control what other people think. I can’t stand that. It seems so un-Christ-like. You try to live it first and then tell people about it – and you acknowledge grace along the way – and that’s why I follow your blog and why I’m grateful. And I’m guessing I’m not the only one.
Interesting…looking forward to the rest of the story! (Really, cliche?…b/c that wouldn’t have been my thought)
Can’t wait to hear the end of this story. Go Shaun, go!
My husband works for a United Church of Christ church, though not in any ministerial position. They hired him to be a custodian even though he graduated from a Baptist Bible college. We are underemployed so we had to take it. Anyhow, they treat him better there than any other place he’s worked, including Baptist churches. Many people, even believers, look right through the custodian, as though he doesn’t exist. A servant such as this is too low socially and economically to be given the time of day, I suppose.
He’s had opportunity to peruse their curriculum and finds it universalist–no absolute truth, all faiths are fine. The head pastor is gay and they’re a big attraction for the gay community. They’re very active in social justice and they seem far less status conscious than America in general. Everyone is kind and pride is kept in check, or so it seems. (They probably feel proud about treating the poor so well, compared to other churches?)
And yet in his opinion, not a single employee has a personal relationship with Jesus.
I didn’t become a Christian until age 31, after a Catholic upbringing in my elementary years. I really got the personal relationship part after coming to faith, but it took me 11 years to understand the full horizontal responsibility. It simply isn’t taught very often, possibly because pastors don’t like to make people uncomfortable? You’ve taught me more than anyone else about the horizontal. I do understand there are many issues to address with any flock of Christians, since the church is mirroring the world so closely right now.
I want to understand the difference between the two groups (liberal vs. evangelical), but it’s so difficult to pinpoint it. Holiness means nothing to them, but love means everything. Holiness is important to evangelicals, yet we struggle with loving our neighbor as ourself?
My husband is very good at slowly discipling by responding to each issue as it’s raised in the context of everyday conversations, and then by living his faith day to day. Maybe he can help make a change in at least one person’s heart there.
I’m very interested in what the individual students had to say to you. I don’t know anything about Mennonite churches, but I assume they are far less liberal than United Church of Christ?
I am so interested in the end of this story. I want to know how the dialogue with the students went ( and perhaps continues to go? ). And this idea of living faith both horizontally AND vertically is very near to my heart as I continue to pour into my young children daily. I want them to learn how to live out faith with both zeal and practicality. Zealous for Christ and what He has done for us. Practically meeting the needs of those both near to us and far.
Just the thought of that got me all choked up. I’m sitting in the airport crying like a crazy lady.
I’m so tire of you taking shots at Skillet, they happen to be a favorite of mine and the wifes (children of the 80′s) and my told older kids…headbangers in training.
We leave Friday to go see RED and TFK
As i continue to read the “mom blogger”….
Ha! I love Mr. Cooper. (I call him Mr. because he’s older than me…too old to wear guyliner). ; )
Nothing against any of the artists I mentioned. It’s pop music…as in popular music….as in not artsy fartsy in the least. With leather pants. ; )
As I read this, my heart broke for how lost so many of these students seem to be. I pray that as you continue to share the message of salvation, hope, kindness, and mercy through Jesus Christ that many would be drawn to Him and be saved! I love the verse in Romans that talks about how “it is the kindness of God that leads us to repentance.” I also love that when we share Scripture, we can rest assured that it will not return void. I’ll be praying for these students and for you Shaun!
Hey Shaun!
We talked a little before chapel about worship. I was excited to enjoy a little contemporary worship. I too was frustrated by those articles but as I worked through it I realized a lot that you have. I think you say it perfectly, evangelical Christianity. I wrote a response to those articles in the paper and said that you were the epitome of my youth and current young adult hood. I’ve grown up surround by contemporary worship music and I love your music. I made a connection with you that day because that was one of the first times on EMU’s campus I felt a taste of home. So I thank you for coming. I enjoyed your message and am planning on sponsoring a child. I went to the back to sponsor a child from Honduras but there weren’t any packets there for a child from Honduras. To me, it doesn’t matter if a song may be cliche. What matters to me is the passion behind the music and the lyrics. You display a great deal of passion and whether you touched many lives or just a few, each life touched counts. Thanks again for coming. I really appreciated your presence on campus.