Comments on: FA(S)Q: What About Them Catholics?

By: Veretax

Veretax — Thu, 19 Mar 2009 11:13:48 +0000

Russ,

I disagree, I believe what both Paul and James are saying is that those of the True faith will bear fruit. It is not a question of if they bear it, or if they must bear it to be saved. If they are saved, They will bear fruit.

Why? because those of the True faith are a new creature in Christ and no longer walk after the Flesh of this earth, but walk by Spirit.

By: russ rentler, M.D.

russ rentler, M.D. — Thu, 19 Mar 2009 10:44:48 +0000

Regarding James and Paul. Catholics agree that the scriptures should be interpreted in light of scripture and we don’t pit Jesus against Paul or James against Paul. We believe in Christ’s sacrifice on the cross for our salvation but we also continue to “work out our salvation with fear and trembling” It is both/and not either/or.
Again the words “faith alone” are not found in Scripture except when referring to “we are not saved by faith alone.” To say that James is referring only to a “justification before men” is a novel interpretation of that scripture and doesn’t gel with the rest of scripture.
Let’s all agree that we are saved by grace alone through faith(not alone)and not by the works of the law(circumcision etc). When Paul talked about the works of the law, keep in mind the context of his audience. He was referring to the Judaizers and those who insisted on circumcision for the Gentiles to become Christians. He was not talking about good works, acts of charity.

“ Catholics insist that James 2:14–26 shows that works are more than mere evidence of faith. Works actually justify. James is speaking about works growing out of faith. If works of faith are not a part of our justification, then it is hard to understand why James would say, as he does, that “Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar?” (Jas. 2:21). You may remember how Paul said that Abraham was not justified by works but by faith. Paul means that Abraham was not justified by keeping the Old Testament law, while James means that Abraham was justified by doing a work that grew out of his faith in God.”
(from Kenneth Howell on the Catholic Answers website)

By: Geneva

Geneva — Thu, 19 Mar 2009 03:53:11 +0000

When we left the Catholic church, we were “mistreated” by a number of Catholic acquaintances. “Mistreated” really isn’t the word for it… I believe they were truly concerned for our souls. We received more than one letter begging us to come back to Jesus. Demonizing other denominations seems to be something numerous denominations do.
For the record, I believe true believers attend all manner of denominational churches. Catholic included.

By: Kees Boer

Kees Boer — Thu, 19 Mar 2009 01:06:40 +0000

We got to take things in context.

First of all, Paul boasted in the cross of Christ. I would never want to take any emphasis away from the cross of Christ and put it on the way I live.

Second of all, The Gospel is the power of God unto salvation. It is defined as the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ. This is where the emphasis again lays not on me, but on Christ.

Third, about James 2. A good crossreference is Rom. 4:4,5. The Bible doesn’t contradict itself, because It is written by God. So, how does it say in Rom. 4, that Abraham was justified solely by faith and then James 2 by works. The key is in the context. Rom. 4 discussing justification before God. Just read the preceding passages and what follows. James 2 talks about justification before men. That’s why it uses phrases like: “Show me your works....” The first 13 verses of James 2 are also clearly dealing with that.

Kees

By: jimmyd3

jimmyd3 — Thu, 19 Mar 2009 00:39:25 +0000

Thank you Kees -
“The word “believe” comes from the Greek word PISTEUO, which means to trust in, to depend upon or to rely upon.”
It reminded me that it’s great to flex our intellectual muscles and find the perfect reasoning to justify our “beliefs” and it’s great to “feel so in love with Jesus” with our emotions but Jesus really said believe in me (TRUST ME!) which involves all parts of us. Many Catholics and many non-Catholics do this and have life.

By: Seth Ward

Seth Ward — Thu, 19 Mar 2009 00:08:51 +0000

I find it best, when addressing any different religion or faith, to read and study from the actual faith’s documents, rather than someone’s straw man version.

But even then, when walk into something like Catholicism and you are LOOKING for proof that justifies your theories, rather than hoping for things that would not, you might only being seeing what you want to see.

For instance, on might see a Christian in prayer, asking Mary or any Saint or deceased Christian to pray for them and think that that Christian is somehow praying TO the saint, therefore practicing idolatry. Then one might be tempted to run out to the nearest Lifeway and buy 8 books on Mary worship, rather than read what the Catholics are ACTUALLY doing.

Thank you Russ for presenting the truth there in a kind tone. It wasn’t too long. There were a lot of whoppers to address and thanks for taking the time to address them.

By: Dan

Dan — Wed, 18 Mar 2009 23:42:38 +0000

Russ :: Bless you.

Spense :: I don’t see what you could possibly have to say after that. I think you’re misunderstandings have been pretty well cleared up.

By: compassion dave

compassion dave — Wed, 18 Mar 2009 23:10:52 +0000

trbvvv

By: Spencer Barfuss

Spencer Barfuss — Wed, 18 Mar 2009 22:59:51 +0000

@russ your post is really long, and I’d love to address all of them, but I’d really like to voice chat about these things since I won’t have time to address them. Add me on Skype: spencerbarf.

In regards to getting off topic, I guess we have a little bit. I’m not saying that there are not Catholics who are Christian, but the teachings of the Catholic church contradict what God says in His word. I’d love to discuss them with anyone who is willing.

By: russ rentler, M.D.

russ rentler, M.D. — Wed, 18 Mar 2009 22:57:49 +0000

The issue of salvation is very important and thus as a Catholic, I feel it’s only fair to present the view of it from the Catholic Church’s point of view.
People can’t start to discuss Catholicism fairly without first understanding what it is that Catholics truly believe. I am so passionate about this because I was like Spence and left the Church never knowing what it was Catholics taught. Now having found it later in life, I feel I have found the “pearl of great price”, a treasure that’s always been at my feet, but I couldn’t see it because of my pride.
God can change lives in the Catholic Church and if our brothers and sisters were willing to see it, we would not have
all of these misconceptions abounding.