Comments on: Invitation To The Curious http://shaungroves.com/2009/01/invitation-to-the-curious/ Official site of Shaun Groves - musician, speaker, advocate for children living in poverty Thu, 24 May 2012 06:41:12 -0500 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v= By: Veretax http://shaungroves.com/2009/01/invitation-to-the-curious/#comment-3291 Veretax Mon, 12 Jan 2009 16:06:58 +0000 http://shaungroves.com/2009/01/invitation-to-the-curious/#comment-3291 <p>Shaun, </p> <p> Excellent Blog! I wholly agree.  When i was in college I was part of a bible fellowship.  We went to a “fundamental” baptist church, and many proudly proclaimed their affiliation as such, but I always have maintained that I am a biblicist.  I believe what is in the bible, and I grow in that faith and understanding as I read it more and grow closer to him.  </p> <p> People outside of that circle used to characterize me as being a “fundamentalist”, and I’d chuckle and say, there is a lot more to it than just the “basics”.  My dad in particular would get on my case about it, and I told him plainly.  A solid foundation is important, but the bible is far to beautiful to only have a foundation.  There are some great stone’s laid upon those basics. </p> <p> I agree with you mostly.  How often do we meet people who say they believe X, when that’s what their pastor, church, denom, or friend believes, but do not understand why they should believe it?  I always wonder about that. </p> Shaun,

Excellent Blog! I wholly agree.  When i was in college I was part of a bible fellowship.  We went to a “fundamental” baptist church, and many proudly proclaimed their affiliation as such, but I always have maintained that I am a biblicist.  I believe what is in the bible, and I grow in that faith and understanding as I read it more and grow closer to him. 

People outside of that circle used to characterize me as being a “fundamentalist”, and I’d chuckle and say, there is a lot more to it than just the “basics”.  My dad in particular would get on my case about it, and I told him plainly.  A solid foundation is important, but the bible is far to beautiful to only have a foundation.  There are some great stone’s laid upon those basics.

I agree with you mostly.  How often do we meet people who say they believe X, when that’s what their pastor, church, denom, or friend believes, but do not understand why they should believe it?  I always wonder about that.

]]> By: Shawn http://shaungroves.com/2009/01/invitation-to-the-curious/#comment-3290 Shawn Mon, 12 Jan 2009 15:57:41 +0000 http://shaungroves.com/2009/01/invitation-to-the-curious/#comment-3290 <p>RevJeff, I’m sure you will not be able to put it down.  It’s a great read (for fiction).  Let us know your insight when you finish. </p> RevJeff, I’m sure you will not be able to put it down.  It’s a great read (for fiction).  Let us know your insight when you finish.

]]> By: RevJeff http://shaungroves.com/2009/01/invitation-to-the-curious/#comment-3289 RevJeff Mon, 12 Jan 2009 15:32:57 +0000 http://shaungroves.com/2009/01/invitation-to-the-curious/#comment-3289 <p>I got “The Shack” and havent read it.  Because I’m undisciplined and lazy and have a hundred excuses.  I am taking it on my retreat this weekend though, so odds are I’ll start it. </p> I got “The Shack” and havent read it.  Because I’m undisciplined and lazy and have a hundred excuses.  I am taking it on my retreat this weekend though, so odds are I’ll start it.

]]> By: Ray http://shaungroves.com/2009/01/invitation-to-the-curious/#comment-3288 Ray Sun, 11 Jan 2009 16:16:56 +0000 http://shaungroves.com/2009/01/invitation-to-the-curious/#comment-3288 <p>Brian Horton, <br /> Please don’t take what I’m about to say personally; I am simply responding to what I continue to see within the Body of Christ, and that is in my opinion, a misuse of Scripture as a substitute for the role of the Holy Spirit.  To say that “We trust in God by trusting in his word which he gave us” to me is simply an example of embracing a concept that we have heard passed down without truly understanding it’s implications.  If we are going to say that Scripture is the “final authority,” wouldn’t it be good to examine what Scripture itself says? Instead, I have heard this idea repeated time and again, and yet the funny thing to me is that I never see this idea of Scripture as the only way God speaks even mentioned in the New Testament (the Scripture itself!).  As a matter of fact, Hebrews 1:1-2 seems to say that God’s final word to us is Jesus Himself, not necessarily the Scriptures.  It actually says that it was “in times past” that God spoke to us through the prophets (or you could say through the Scriptures, for these were the writings of the prophets), but that now He has spoken (and, through the Spirit, continues to speak) through His Son.  What does the Son say about the role of the Holy Spirit? </p> <p> “But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.” & “He will tell you things to come.” </p> <p> What else did the Son say?  In John 5:39-40, He said that knowing the Scriptures did not equate to knowing Him.  Even though the Pharisees had memorized Genesis to Malachi, Jesus said that they were still missing the point.  He said that the point of Scripture is to point people to Him.  Here’s where the rub is for me:  Instead of allowing the Scriptures to point them to a living relationship with Jesus, many Christians instead develop a relationship with the Bible.  The problem with this is that it turns the Bible into something that it was not intended to be...a substitute for the living voice of God. Scripture reveals God as the “I am” of today, not the “I was” of yester-year.  <br /> <br /> I am personally uncomfortable with saying that E-Jayjo is straying “dangerously close to Gnosticism.” To me this is nothing more than a “slippery slope” argument.  The problem with these kinds of statements is that they equate the top of the slope with the bottom.  Instead of actually having to wrestle with what people say, we can simply label them as “unsafe” and move on.  The slippery slope is an argument based on fear, not reason.  </p> <p> Brian, I hope that I have not offended you.  This is not my intention.  Instead, I hope that we can all grow as a result of having these kinds of conversations.  Thanks, Shaun, for hosting this dialog! </p> Brian Horton,

Please don’t take what I’m about to say personally; I am simply responding to what I continue to see within the Body of Christ, and that is in my opinion, a misuse of Scripture as a substitute for the role of the Holy Spirit.  To say that “We trust in God by trusting in his word which he gave us” to me is simply an example of embracing a concept that we have heard passed down without truly understanding it’s implications.  If we are going to say that Scripture is the “final authority,” wouldn’t it be good to examine what Scripture itself says? Instead, I have heard this idea repeated time and again, and yet the funny thing to me is that I never see this idea of Scripture as the only way God speaks even mentioned in the New Testament (the Scripture itself!).  As a matter of fact, Hebrews 1:1-2 seems to say that God’s final word to us is Jesus Himself, not necessarily the Scriptures.  It actually says that it was “in times past” that God spoke to us through the prophets (or you could say through the Scriptures, for these were the writings of the prophets), but that now He has spoken (and, through the Spirit, continues to speak) through His Son.  What does the Son say about the role of the Holy Spirit?

“But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.” & “He will tell you things to come.”

What else did the Son say?  In John 5:39-40, He said that knowing the Scriptures did not equate to knowing Him.  Even though the Pharisees had memorized Genesis to Malachi, Jesus said that they were still missing the point.  He said that the point of Scripture is to point people to Him.  Here’s where the rub is for me:  Instead of allowing the Scriptures to point them to a living relationship with Jesus, many Christians instead develop a relationship with the Bible.  The problem with this is that it turns the Bible into something that it was not intended to be…a substitute for the living voice of God. Scripture reveals God as the “I am” of today, not the “I was” of yester-year. 

I am personally uncomfortable with saying that E-Jayjo is straying “dangerously close to Gnosticism.” To me this is nothing more than a “slippery slope” argument.  The problem with these kinds of statements is that they equate the top of the slope with the bottom.  Instead of actually having to wrestle with what people say, we can simply label them as “unsafe” and move on.  The slippery slope is an argument based on fear, not reason. 

Brian, I hope that I have not offended you.  This is not my intention.  Instead, I hope that we can all grow as a result of having these kinds of conversations.  Thanks, Shaun, for hosting this dialog!

]]> By: E-Jayjo http://shaungroves.com/2009/01/invitation-to-the-curious/#comment-3287 E-Jayjo Sun, 11 Jan 2009 15:32:37 +0000 http://shaungroves.com/2009/01/invitation-to-the-curious/#comment-3287 <p>Brian Horton: <br /> Wow...I didn’t know my comment ever mentioned Star Wars!!  The bible does say that all who seek Him will find Him (referring to God...not Buddha, Yogi Berra or Allah).  And yes, I’m talking about being led by the Holy Spirit, not an “ambigious personal guiding force.” Label me what you will, but I’m confident in my relationship with God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit.  I would rather “err” on the side of trusting the voice of God than to truly err by doubting His ability to lead me. </p> <p> Going back to Shaun’s post, I choose to be one of the curious rather than a fundamentalist. </p> Brian Horton:

Wow…I didn’t know my comment ever mentioned Star Wars!!  The bible does say that all who seek Him will find Him (referring to God…not Buddha, Yogi Berra or Allah).  And yes, I’m talking about being led by the Holy Spirit, not an “ambigious personal guiding force.” Label me what you will, but I’m confident in my relationship with God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit.  I would rather “err” on the side of trusting the voice of God than to truly err by doubting His ability to lead me.

Going back to Shaun’s post, I choose to be one of the curious rather than a fundamentalist.

]]> By: Brian Horton http://shaungroves.com/2009/01/invitation-to-the-curious/#comment-3286 Brian Horton Sun, 11 Jan 2009 14:45:24 +0000 http://shaungroves.com/2009/01/invitation-to-the-curious/#comment-3286 <p>Ejayo: </p> <p> We trust in God by trusting in his word which he gave us. There is no ambiguous personal guiding force that will lead you, me, or anyone else to truth. Do we have the Holy Spirit? Absolutely. However, the Holy Spirit can only work with what you know to be truth from God’s word. God is not going to reveal new truth to any one of us. You stray dangerously close to Gnosticism. </p> Ejayo:

We trust in God by trusting in his word which he gave us. There is no ambiguous personal guiding force that will lead you, me, or anyone else to truth. Do we have the Holy Spirit? Absolutely. However, the Holy Spirit can only work with what you know to be truth from God’s word. God is not going to reveal new truth to any one of us. You stray dangerously close to Gnosticism.

]]> By: Bonnie http://shaungroves.com/2009/01/invitation-to-the-curious/#comment-3285 Bonnie Sun, 11 Jan 2009 06:26:23 +0000 http://shaungroves.com/2009/01/invitation-to-the-curious/#comment-3285 <p>Grovesfan, </p> <p> You pretty much said what I wanted to say, but ran out of room for. =) </p> <p> “God doesn’t punish sin; the guilt is punishment enough” <br /> The line that has been quoted from The Shack has so many implications about the atonement of Christ,the justice of God, and our need for a Savior. If people are not discerning and let statements like that form their view of Christ, than it becomes a very big deal. </p> <p> Anyways, I digress. Great post Shaun. </p> Grovesfan,

You pretty much said what I wanted to say, but ran out of room for. =)

“God doesn’t punish sin; the guilt is punishment enough”

The line that has been quoted from The Shack has so many implications about the atonement of Christ,the justice of God, and our need for a Savior. If people are not discerning and let statements like that form their view of Christ, than it becomes a very big deal.

Anyways, I digress. Great post Shaun.

]]> By: Jonathan http://shaungroves.com/2009/01/invitation-to-the-curious/#comment-3284 Jonathan Sun, 11 Jan 2009 01:11:22 +0000 http://shaungroves.com/2009/01/invitation-to-the-curious/#comment-3284 <p>I haven’t read “The Shack”, but it is on my list of books to read because a very solid Christian man that I respect a lot recommended it to me. </p> <p> After reading some of the comments, I decided to comment and then saw the comment from E-Jayjo which basically has my thoughts in it.  God is powerful, and He will make sure that if people are seeking Him, they will find Him.  We can be sure of that. </p> <p> There are a lot of things that Christians can find questionable to take part in.  Take yoga for example (<a href="http://stufffchristianslike.blogspot.com/2008/11/440-not-knowing-what-to-do-with-yoga.html" rel="nofollow">http://stufffchristianslike.blogspot.com/2008/11/440-not-knowing-what-to-do-with-yoga.html</a>).  I think people need to take responsibility for their own lives but not push their convictions on others.  I for one am completely comfortable doing yoga and being a Christian.  I am sure I would be fine reading “The Shack” as well.  If people feel that they should avoid a book, or an exercise, or whatever because it would lead them away from God, then they should talk to the Lord about it and be secure in the fact that they are seeking the Lord’s face.  The other people who read the book or do the exercise and talk to the Lord about it should also be secure if they are seeking the Lord’s face. </p> I haven’t read “The Shack”, but it is on my list of books to read because a very solid Christian man that I respect a lot recommended it to me.

After reading some of the comments, I decided to comment and then saw the comment from E-Jayjo which basically has my thoughts in it.  God is powerful, and He will make sure that if people are seeking Him, they will find Him.  We can be sure of that.

There are a lot of things that Christians can find questionable to take part in.  Take yoga for example (http://stufffchristianslike.blogspot.com/2008/11/440-not-knowing-what-to-do-with-yoga.html).  I think people need to take responsibility for their own lives but not push their convictions on others.  I for one am completely comfortable doing yoga and being a Christian.  I am sure I would be fine reading “The Shack” as well.  If people feel that they should avoid a book, or an exercise, or whatever because it would lead them away from God, then they should talk to the Lord about it and be secure in the fact that they are seeking the Lord’s face.  The other people who read the book or do the exercise and talk to the Lord about it should also be secure if they are seeking the Lord’s face.

]]> By: Biblefanmaryann http://shaungroves.com/2009/01/invitation-to-the-curious/#comment-3283 Biblefanmaryann Sat, 10 Jan 2009 23:53:26 +0000 http://shaungroves.com/2009/01/invitation-to-the-curious/#comment-3283 <p>I’ve been trying to be a little more curious lately.  A certain wise friend of mine said it would make me good student of the Bible.  I’m still scared of being exposed to heretical things though.  I guess it’s good to have both curiosity and fear, to keep things balanced. <br /> I understand the difficult situation of being told one thing by people who are older and wiser than you in most things, yet wanting to find out for yourself if something is really a moral issue or just a personal judgment that someone made up. <br /> How do you keep your curiosity and honor your elders at the same time, when your elders are forcing their personal convictions on you? </p> I’ve been trying to be a little more curious lately.  A certain wise friend of mine said it would make me good student of the Bible.  I’m still scared of being exposed to heretical things though.  I guess it’s good to have both curiosity and fear, to keep things balanced.

I understand the difficult situation of being told one thing by people who are older and wiser than you in most things, yet wanting to find out for yourself if something is really a moral issue or just a personal judgment that someone made up.

How do you keep your curiosity and honor your elders at the same time, when your elders are forcing their personal convictions on you?

]]> By: leslie http://shaungroves.com/2009/01/invitation-to-the-curious/#comment-3282 leslie Sat, 10 Jan 2009 22:38:54 +0000 http://shaungroves.com/2009/01/invitation-to-the-curious/#comment-3282 <p>Shaun, <br /> You’ve been blessed with “Blog Love”.  Check out your award on my blog. </p> Shaun,

You’ve been blessed with “Blog Love”.  Check out your award on my blog.

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