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	<title>Comments on: Going Giftless Part 2</title>
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		<title>By: Dave Haupert</title>
		<link>http://shaungroves.com/2008/12/going-giftless-part-2/#comment-3472</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Haupert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Dec 2008 14:05:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shaungroves.com/2008/12/going-giftless-part-2/#comment-3472</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;This is a great analogy Shaun, and probably better than you imagined.&#160; First, you bring up a good point.&#160; If we removed traditions that we enjoyed would our children even miss it.&#160; That seems like an obvious point, but one we don&#8217;t often consider.&#160; The bigger question is what will fill it&#8217;s place.&#160; I admire your desire to fill it with pure biblical based traditions.&#160; Is good intentions and best efforts enough though?
&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;
To your milk analogy, here&#8217;s my point.&#160; You replaced cow&#8217;s milk with soy, doing your research and finding it&#8217;s absence of casein, a common allergen especially for asthmatics.&#160; What you replaced it with, Soy milk, has it&#8217;s own set of problems however.&#160; Soy produces excitotoxins in the brain, known to negatively affect growth in young children as well as cause seizures.&#160; My family went through the same switch you did- and the kids were happily drinking soy milk and not &#8216;knowing any different&#8217; with respect to missing the traditional breakfast variety.&#160;
&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;
Then my daughter had her first seizure, laying unconscious on the floor at the mall, and having CPR administered in front of us in perhaps the most surreal moment of my life thus far.&#160; After visiting with several allergists and nutritionists, we determined it was the soy milk causing it.&#160; We learned that there is a better alternative, goat&#8217;s milk, which does not contain casein, and does not produce excitotoxins in the brain.&#160; Our kids drank that for the years following with no adverse effects.&#160; Oh, and it tastes much better than soy- the kids all agreed (as do I).
&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;
My point in this is twofold:
&lt;br /&gt;
1.&#160; Warn you about giving that much soy based anything to anyone, let alone a growing child.&#160;
&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;
2.&#160; I believe the rush to rid traditions that we question the biblical or nutritional basis of, while noble, is a dangerous effort.&#160; You must really be careful to not make such a radical adjustment without fully researching the consequences.&#160;
&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;
While your kids seem healthy on Soy milk (and I pray they are), you should carefully research the negative effects soy has on the young person&#8217;s body.&#160; And while getting caught up on the gift part of the season has led many people astray from the true purpose and meaning of Christmas, eliminating gifts may have some long term effects.&#160;
&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;
I&#8217;m not sure what they would be, but one worry I have is that we can easily become focused with reaching all ends of the earth before we reach our Jerusulem.&#160; That is, it&#8217;s easy to imagine that we can come to ignore the needs within our own families and inner circle of friends when we are focused on the world at large.&#160; Ask any PK how they feel about this to get a good iea of what I mean.&#160;
&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;
Giving gifts to family and friends can be a wonderful experience for the receiver (to feel special/important and loved) and to the giver, who sees the effect that it has on the receiver and is nudged towards a heart for giving elsewhere.&#160; Careful to keep this in mind when offering a replacement!
&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a great analogy Shaun, and probably better than you imagined.&nbsp; First, you bring up a good point.&nbsp; If we removed traditions that we enjoyed would our children even miss it.&nbsp; That seems like an obvious point, but one we don&#8217;t often consider.&nbsp; The bigger question is what will fill it&#8217;s place.&nbsp; I admire your desire to fill it with pure biblical based traditions.&nbsp; Is good intentions and best efforts enough though?
</p>
<p>
To your milk analogy, here&#8217;s my point.&nbsp; You replaced cow&#8217;s milk with soy, doing your research and finding it&#8217;s absence of casein, a common allergen especially for asthmatics.&nbsp; What you replaced it with, Soy milk, has it&#8217;s own set of problems however.&nbsp; Soy produces excitotoxins in the brain, known to negatively affect growth in young children as well as cause seizures.&nbsp; My family went through the same switch you did- and the kids were happily drinking soy milk and not &#8216;knowing any different&#8217; with respect to missing the traditional breakfast variety.&nbsp;
</p>
<p>
Then my daughter had her first seizure, laying unconscious on the floor at the mall, and having CPR administered in front of us in perhaps the most surreal moment of my life thus far.&nbsp; After visiting with several allergists and nutritionists, we determined it was the soy milk causing it.&nbsp; We learned that there is a better alternative, goat&#8217;s milk, which does not contain casein, and does not produce excitotoxins in the brain.&nbsp; Our kids drank that for the years following with no adverse effects.&nbsp; Oh, and it tastes much better than soy- the kids all agreed (as do I).
</p>
<p>
My point in this is twofold:<br />
<br />
1.&nbsp; Warn you about giving that much soy based anything to anyone, let alone a growing child.&nbsp;
</p>
<p>
2.&nbsp; I believe the rush to rid traditions that we question the biblical or nutritional basis of, while noble, is a dangerous effort.&nbsp; You must really be careful to not make such a radical adjustment without fully researching the consequences.&nbsp;
</p>
<p>
While your kids seem healthy on Soy milk (and I pray they are), you should carefully research the negative effects soy has on the young person&#8217;s body.&nbsp; And while getting caught up on the gift part of the season has led many people astray from the true purpose and meaning of Christmas, eliminating gifts may have some long term effects.&nbsp;
</p>
<p>
I&#8217;m not sure what they would be, but one worry I have is that we can easily become focused with reaching all ends of the earth before we reach our Jerusulem.&nbsp; That is, it&#8217;s easy to imagine that we can come to ignore the needs within our own families and inner circle of friends when we are focused on the world at large.&nbsp; Ask any PK how they feel about this to get a good iea of what I mean.&nbsp;
</p>
<p>
Giving gifts to family and friends can be a wonderful experience for the receiver (to feel special/important and loved) and to the giver, who sees the effect that it has on the receiver and is nudged towards a heart for giving elsewhere.&nbsp; Careful to keep this in mind when offering a replacement!</p>
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		<title>By: Dawn~Canada</title>
		<link>http://shaungroves.com/2008/12/going-giftless-part-2/#comment-3471</link>
		<dc:creator>Dawn~Canada</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Dec 2008 18:27:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shaungroves.com/2008/12/going-giftless-part-2/#comment-3471</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Racer - I agree, and we do both as well, but I&#8217;m talkin&#8217; about those &#8220;give-all&#8221; people, ya know, the ones who go way out there to help the helpless in grandiose ways proclaiming that&#8217;s the reason for the season, but also feel they need to satisfy the urge to spend big $$ on family and friends.&#160; But thanks for the encourage!
&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Racer &#8211; I agree, and we do both as well, but I&#8217;m talkin&#8217; about those &#8220;give-all&#8221; people, ya know, the ones who go way out there to help the helpless in grandiose ways proclaiming that&#8217;s the reason for the season, but also feel they need to satisfy the urge to spend big $$ on family and friends.&nbsp; But thanks for the encourage!</p>
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		<title>By: Susanne</title>
		<link>http://shaungroves.com/2008/12/going-giftless-part-2/#comment-3470</link>
		<dc:creator>Susanne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Dec 2008 05:36:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shaungroves.com/2008/12/going-giftless-part-2/#comment-3470</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;So so true.&#160; If we gave our kids less gifts at Christmas, I think they would be fine.&#160; My husband and I are the ones who would be worried about how the grandparents would handle the change.&#160; We would be a little sad because of the happy memories we have of opening tons of presents on Christmas morning.&#160; But I know my kids would do great with the change.&#160; Now if I can just motivate myself to change!&#160; Oh - and my kids and I love soy milk (the vanilla kind).&#160;   &lt;img src=&quot;http://www.shaungroves.com/images/smileys/smile.gif&quot; width=&quot;19&quot; height=&quot;19&quot; alt=&quot;smile&quot; style=&quot;border:0;&quot; /&gt;
&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So so true.&nbsp; If we gave our kids less gifts at Christmas, I think they would be fine.&nbsp; My husband and I are the ones who would be worried about how the grandparents would handle the change.&nbsp; We would be a little sad because of the happy memories we have of opening tons of presents on Christmas morning.&nbsp; But I know my kids would do great with the change.&nbsp; Now if I can just motivate myself to change!&nbsp; Oh &#8211; and my kids and I love soy milk (the vanilla kind).&nbsp;   <img src="http://www.shaungroves.com/images/smileys/smile.gif" width="19" height="19" alt="smile" style="border:0;" /></p>
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		<title>By: Deneen</title>
		<link>http://shaungroves.com/2008/12/going-giftless-part-2/#comment-3469</link>
		<dc:creator>Deneen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Dec 2008 02:09:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shaungroves.com/2008/12/going-giftless-part-2/#comment-3469</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Good stuff.&#160; Thank you.
&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good stuff.&nbsp; Thank you.</p>
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		<title>By: TransitionGirl</title>
		<link>http://shaungroves.com/2008/12/going-giftless-part-2/#comment-3468</link>
		<dc:creator>TransitionGirl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Dec 2008 00:50:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shaungroves.com/2008/12/going-giftless-part-2/#comment-3468</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I think giving up Christmas gifts is more of a tradition and social thing. Kids growing up with it expect it. Everyone expects it. But doesn&#8217;t mean you gotta give it.
&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;
Giving makes the giver happy, but do we REALLY need all those stuff?
&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;
I agree with giving a poor kid in Indonesia a Christmas gift to show love and provide them with something they&#8217;ll probably never be able to buy.
&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;
I don&#8217;t agree with giving kids who have &#8220;everything&#8221; more stuff just for the sake of giving. Defeats the purpose. (I&#8217;ve never bought into the saying that Christmas is a time of giving. The whole year should be a time of giving of ourselves, and the Lord&#8217;s truth. not just a season.)
&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think giving up Christmas gifts is more of a tradition and social thing. Kids growing up with it expect it. Everyone expects it. But doesn&#8217;t mean you gotta give it.
</p>
<p>
Giving makes the giver happy, but do we REALLY need all those stuff?
</p>
<p>
I agree with giving a poor kid in Indonesia a Christmas gift to show love and provide them with something they&#8217;ll probably never be able to buy.
</p>
<p>
I don&#8217;t agree with giving kids who have &#8220;everything&#8221; more stuff just for the sake of giving. Defeats the purpose. (I&#8217;ve never bought into the saying that Christmas is a time of giving. The whole year should be a time of giving of ourselves, and the Lord&#8217;s truth. not just a season.)</p>
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		<title>By: Bonnie</title>
		<link>http://shaungroves.com/2008/12/going-giftless-part-2/#comment-3467</link>
		<dc:creator>Bonnie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Dec 2008 00:00:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shaungroves.com/2008/12/going-giftless-part-2/#comment-3467</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I didn&#8217;t send out Christmas cards this year, and I&#8217;m ok with that. My husband and I make gifts because we absolutely love giving them.
&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;
Also, I just learned that I have a dairy allergy. Guess what kind of milk-laden Christmas candy this preschool teacher got from 10 students? Thanks guys, thanks for the chocolate that I will give to my husband.
&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I didn&#8217;t send out Christmas cards this year, and I&#8217;m ok with that. My husband and I make gifts because we absolutely love giving them.
</p>
<p>
Also, I just learned that I have a dairy allergy. Guess what kind of milk-laden Christmas candy this preschool teacher got from 10 students? Thanks guys, thanks for the chocolate that I will give to my husband.</p>
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		<title>By: Courtney</title>
		<link>http://shaungroves.com/2008/12/going-giftless-part-2/#comment-3466</link>
		<dc:creator>Courtney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Dec 2008 00:00:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shaungroves.com/2008/12/going-giftless-part-2/#comment-3466</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Now this one you&#8217;ve got me on&#8230;
&lt;br /&gt;
The change from gifts to no gifts (the hypothetical change, of course, since you haven&#8217;t actually suggested that yet) would be hard for me to make because it&#8217;s inconvenient, uncomfortable, and awkward for ME.
&lt;br /&gt;
I like what you&#8217;ve put on the table (not talking about the soy milk).
&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Now this one you&#8217;ve got me on&#8230;<br />
<br />
The change from gifts to no gifts (the hypothetical change, of course, since you haven&#8217;t actually suggested that yet) would be hard for me to make because it&#8217;s inconvenient, uncomfortable, and awkward for ME.<br />
<br />
I like what you&#8217;ve put on the table (not talking about the soy milk).</p>
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		<title>By: MamasBoy</title>
		<link>http://shaungroves.com/2008/12/going-giftless-part-2/#comment-3465</link>
		<dc:creator>MamasBoy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Dec 2008 22:00:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shaungroves.com/2008/12/going-giftless-part-2/#comment-3465</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&quot;I’ve never written negatively about World Vision.&#8221;
&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;
I really apologize for saying you had.&#160; For some reason I thought I remembered you questioning the ethics of calling a program child sponsorship when it is symbolic and not actual, but my memory must have failed me.&#160; Again, I apologize for putting words in your mouth.
&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;
MB
&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I’ve never written negatively about World Vision.&#8221;
</p>
<p>
I really apologize for saying you had.&nbsp; For some reason I thought I remembered you questioning the ethics of calling a program child sponsorship when it is symbolic and not actual, but my memory must have failed me.&nbsp; Again, I apologize for putting words in your mouth.
</p>
<p>
MB</p>
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		<title>By: Eric</title>
		<link>http://shaungroves.com/2008/12/going-giftless-part-2/#comment-3464</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Dec 2008 21:30:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shaungroves.com/2008/12/going-giftless-part-2/#comment-3464</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Our 8 month old has an aversion to dairy, and my wife has cut it out of her diet.&#160; She&#8217;s been gracious about it, but it&#8217;s incredibly hard because (as you said) milk is literally everywhere:&#160; bread, potato chips, pre-packaged food items- and just forget about eating out.&#160; Any time we eat with other families, she has to skip out on whatever others make because inevitably it was made with butter, cheese, or milk.&#160; Soy milk is the norm for us, although i do still eat some dairy-laden items.&#160;
&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;
Obviously, at 8 months old (she&#8217;s our only child so far), our daughter&#8217;s not going to comprehend the whole Christmas presents thing, so we&#8217;re still in the working phase of how we&#8217;ll handle it in the future.&#160; Not to mention Santa- not trying to cause anyone else to feel weird about it, but for our family, that&#8217;s a whole Pandora&#8217;s box of dubious worldly tradition that my mother clings to with the tenacity of &#8220;a love-starved cobra&#8221; (just watched The Man Who Came to Dinner the other night- love it).&#160; We&#8217;re leaning toward explaining it all to her, telling her it&#8217;s not real.&#160; Some friends of ours never explained it to their kids, and when people in public would ask them what they wanted from Santa, they&#8217;d just look at them like they had slime oozing out their ears.
&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;
Right now, we have 2 &#8216;presents&#8217; for the baby:&#160; a car seat (her present will actually be the empty box and the wrapping paper), and a wooden alligator toy that clacks (which she probably won&#8217;t play with until she&#8217;s walking).&#160; We&#8217;re not buying anything for anyone else- we plan to make some baked items, but that&#8217;s about it.
&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Our 8 month old has an aversion to dairy, and my wife has cut it out of her diet.&nbsp; She&#8217;s been gracious about it, but it&#8217;s incredibly hard because (as you said) milk is literally everywhere:&nbsp; bread, potato chips, pre-packaged food items- and just forget about eating out.&nbsp; Any time we eat with other families, she has to skip out on whatever others make because inevitably it was made with butter, cheese, or milk.&nbsp; Soy milk is the norm for us, although i do still eat some dairy-laden items.&nbsp;
</p>
<p>
Obviously, at 8 months old (she&#8217;s our only child so far), our daughter&#8217;s not going to comprehend the whole Christmas presents thing, so we&#8217;re still in the working phase of how we&#8217;ll handle it in the future.&nbsp; Not to mention Santa- not trying to cause anyone else to feel weird about it, but for our family, that&#8217;s a whole Pandora&#8217;s box of dubious worldly tradition that my mother clings to with the tenacity of &#8220;a love-starved cobra&#8221; (just watched The Man Who Came to Dinner the other night- love it).&nbsp; We&#8217;re leaning toward explaining it all to her, telling her it&#8217;s not real.&nbsp; Some friends of ours never explained it to their kids, and when people in public would ask them what they wanted from Santa, they&#8217;d just look at them like they had slime oozing out their ears.
</p>
<p>
Right now, we have 2 &#8216;presents&#8217; for the baby:&nbsp; a car seat (her present will actually be the empty box and the wrapping paper), and a wooden alligator toy that clacks (which she probably won&#8217;t play with until she&#8217;s walking).&nbsp; We&#8217;re not buying anything for anyone else- we plan to make some baked items, but that&#8217;s about it.</p>
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		<title>By: Grovesfan</title>
		<link>http://shaungroves.com/2008/12/going-giftless-part-2/#comment-3463</link>
		<dc:creator>Grovesfan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Dec 2008 21:20:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shaungroves.com/2008/12/going-giftless-part-2/#comment-3463</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;We do give gifts to our children and to others in our family.&#160; Could we scale back in the gift-giving department?&#160; Absolutely!&#160; Should we?&#160; Almost certainly.&#160; Do we?&#160; Not as much as we should.&#160; We&#8217;ve cut back some this year though, mainly because I&#8217;ve been out of work for the last 6 months.
&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;
I never thought much at all (if ever) about the wise men being connected with our Christmas gift giving traditions.&#160; My parents always taught us that the reason we gave gifts at Christmastime was because God gave us the MOST PRECIOUS GIFT, the reason for our celebration, His Only Son.
&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;
Did we do the &#8220;Santa&#8221; thing when I was little?&#160; Some.&#160; It was fun to pretend, although harder growing up in Florida where we had no chimney, no snow, no reindeer, etc.&#160; Our story was altered a bit to substitute a boat, 8 dolphin, and the lanai door.&#160; Did we know it was pretend?&#160; Yep.&#160; Still fun.&#160; There&#8217;s nothing wrong with fun.&#160;
&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;
These traditions didn&#8217;t do anything to alter my belief about the true meaning of Christmas, or the fact that nowhere in scripture is it said that we SHOULD celebrate the birth of Christ.&#160;
&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;
It doesn&#8217;t say anywhere in scripture that we sing in church, have an alter call, sit in pews or substitute grape juice for wine in communion; but many of us do.&#160; There&#8217;s nothing wrong with any of it as long as Scripture is TAUGHT correctly, adhered to in ALL cases, and EVERYONE is shown the love of Christ through His church.
&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;
My kids get gifts, they give gifts, and they know why we celebrate.&#160; Good stuff.&#160; Can we be &#8220;better&#8221; at it?&#160; Yep.&#160; Getting there a bit more every year.
&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We do give gifts to our children and to others in our family.&nbsp; Could we scale back in the gift-giving department?&nbsp; Absolutely!&nbsp; Should we?&nbsp; Almost certainly.&nbsp; Do we?&nbsp; Not as much as we should.&nbsp; We&#8217;ve cut back some this year though, mainly because I&#8217;ve been out of work for the last 6 months.
</p>
<p>
I never thought much at all (if ever) about the wise men being connected with our Christmas gift giving traditions.&nbsp; My parents always taught us that the reason we gave gifts at Christmastime was because God gave us the MOST PRECIOUS GIFT, the reason for our celebration, His Only Son.
</p>
<p>
Did we do the &#8220;Santa&#8221; thing when I was little?&nbsp; Some.&nbsp; It was fun to pretend, although harder growing up in Florida where we had no chimney, no snow, no reindeer, etc.&nbsp; Our story was altered a bit to substitute a boat, 8 dolphin, and the lanai door.&nbsp; Did we know it was pretend?&nbsp; Yep.&nbsp; Still fun.&nbsp; There&#8217;s nothing wrong with fun.&nbsp;
</p>
<p>
These traditions didn&#8217;t do anything to alter my belief about the true meaning of Christmas, or the fact that nowhere in scripture is it said that we SHOULD celebrate the birth of Christ.&nbsp;
</p>
<p>
It doesn&#8217;t say anywhere in scripture that we sing in church, have an alter call, sit in pews or substitute grape juice for wine in communion; but many of us do.&nbsp; There&#8217;s nothing wrong with any of it as long as Scripture is TAUGHT correctly, adhered to in ALL cases, and EVERYONE is shown the love of Christ through His church.
</p>
<p>
My kids get gifts, they give gifts, and they know why we celebrate.&nbsp; Good stuff.&nbsp; Can we be &#8220;better&#8221; at it?&nbsp; Yep.&nbsp; Getting there a bit more every year.</p>
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