Comments on: Pondering Senator Obama’s Lists

By: western saddles

western saddles — Sun, 28 Dec 2008 05:33:14 +0000

I’m a Rule of Law kind of guy, and frankly I think that it is wrong for us to be legislating and mandating government enforcement of these kinds of things. It is not in the powers of the Federal Government as enumerated in the Constitution to be the whipping stick for Churches that have gone a stray. Mark my words though, that if such a thing did start to happen, it would not be for the better of Christian Churches, but to its detriment. barbeque foods

By: Hill Country Ranches & Homes

Hill Country Ranches & Homes — Fri, 24 Oct 2008 08:24:11 +0000

No, there are some things that are clearly excesses, not needs. We don’t need cable, internet, could even go so far as saying telephone. Do we need healthcare? I’d say no. Do we need retirement? No.

By: California Bankruptcy

California Bankruptcy — Sun, 19 Oct 2008 09:16:39 +0000

Should government do the things we aren’t doing but should be doing or stick to the things we truly can’t do?

that i must say is a profound question and is one that i have been looking for answers myself for quite some time now..

By: Veretax

Veretax — Tue, 14 Oct 2008 10:26:33 +0000

"But overall, the evidence just isn’t there that individuals and churches actually would do what we’re called to do, so in that sense, I’d rather have government force the general public to at least provide a minimum of services.”

There are so many problems with this kind of thinking. First off the establishment clause in the First Amendment of the US Constitution. It prohibits the establishment of any religion or prohibiting the free exercise of it. I’m a Rule of Law kind of guy, and frankly I think that it is wrong for us to be legislating and mandating government enforcement of these kinds of things. It is not in the powers of the Federal Government as enumerated in the Constitution to be the whipping stick for Churches that have gone a stray. Mark my words though, that if such a thing did start to happen, it would not be for the better of Christian Churches, but to its detriment.

The other problem is that I believe many are confusing the True Church with the “professing Church”. There is a different. Let us not forget what was written in Matthew 7:

21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’
23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

There are many today in our country who go to a “professing Christian Church” and there are many Churches which claim Christs name, but do nothing, absolutely nothing to advance the cause of Christ. Don’t confuse the corrupt liberal Mainline Denominations as I used to like to call them (the term is a bit outdated today I think, but back in the day that’s what I called them), with the truly saved laity of the True Church.

So no, I don’t think its Constitutional for the Government to enforce this on Churches, and I am absolutely against them trying to do so for such would threaten the freedoms we enjoy in this Country. Do we want to be like the militant islamic states where all Christian “Law” is held to including its prescriptions for punishment? Let us not forget that Jesus shed his grace on that Cross for us before we start forcing Churches to do these things which they ought to be doing anyways. Remember it is God who judges the Church, (See Revelation). It is not Government’s job to keep the Church in Line, and if one Church has fallen into malpractice, then God will raise up another in its place.

By: Real Estate Templates

Real Estate Templates — Mon, 13 Oct 2008 05:02:29 +0000

Maybe you see some of that in government grants to church-run social service programs, but overall, the evidence just isn’t there that individuals and churches actually would do what we’re called to do, so in that sense, I’d rather have government force the general public to at least provide a minimum of services.

By: pat

pat — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 15:07:05 +0000

Abortion and the practice of homosexuality are free will choices as are the practices of greed and manipulation.

By: shaunfan

shaunfan — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 12:56:29 +0000

Adam, thanks for that reminder. I grew up without any type of “biblical” view and interestingly was Democrat in college and voted for Clinton twice. Then, Jars of Clay introduced me to Christian music and the gospel and I started seeking a “biblical” view and ultimately became a Christian in 1999. I changed political parties in 2000 and voted for Bush twice and plan to vote for McCain. I’m not saying Republicans have it right but a Christian friend recently encouraged me that freedoms that I greatly value (we homeschool our 3 daughters, public prayer, etc.) put me more in that camp.

As for trying to have a “biblical” view, I agree about maintaining humility and for the most part, I end up seeming like the loser in debates as I don’t resort to name calling or passing judgment. I also have way too much cultural baggage (I’m listening to Weezer right now while typing this), but my desire is to be a better follower of Jesus more than winning arguments.

By: Adam S

Adam S — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 12:34:31 +0000

Be careful with saying that your view is “The” biblical view. I would say that most of us here believe that our view are influenced by scripture and our faith, but saying that your view is “The” biblical view often makes too strong of a case. There has to be room for discussion. And frankly, I at least, am not convinced that I have it all right. I may have way to much of my cultural baggage tagged on to my reading of scripture so that I miss the point that God was trying to communicate entirely. I fully support and encourage sharing with people how you believe that your view is “a” biblical worldview. But it really needs to be done humbly for people to want to respond.

By: shaunfan

shaunfan — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 12:27:45 +0000

Great discussion. Thanks for all of the great points as I get into this debate with family and friends who don’t seem to truly understand the logic behind their arguments which are basically ‘poor me’ viewpoints.

Coincidentally, they also don’t have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. Ultimately that is the most important point I want to make, which is my viewpoint is based on the Bible.

By: Veretax

Veretax — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 11:06:27 +0000

Here’s my problem with Taxes. Your typical day. I wake up, turn on the light, I’m taxed for the electricity. I walk to the sink to splash some water on my face, or get a cool drink of water and I’m taxed again. I jump in the shower, again I’m taxed for that. I turn on the TV to watch the news while my mind warms up enough to do a daily devotion and I am taxed again. I do my daily devotion, Thank God they haven’t figured out how to tax that yet. I make my lunch. Now I may not be taxed for the act of making lunch, but I’m hit with a tax at the grocer when I buy the food. I walk out the door get in my car to drive to work and the gas used to propel the car is taxed, plus the car itself is taxed, and requires fee’s to keep it registered, and the fee for my drivers license, (unless the whether is fair enough then I try to walk and am not taxed for that thankfully.) I get to work, and my computer logs onto a company network, which is connected to the internet and again I’m taxed, indirectly this time as the company is footing the bill for that. I work my but off get my pay check and that is taxed too. I go home, cook dinner, and that too is taxed, the food and the electricity, plus any water used. We are already over taxed in this country. We got taxes on sales, taxes on income, taxes on water, electricity, telecommunications, cable, internet, gasoline, personal property, real estate, and on and on and on. There is very little we do in this life that isn’t taxed, and this Senator from Illinois, Barak Obama wants to let the Bush Tax cut expire, with the promise that by 2012 he’ll give us a tax break. Right, seems to recall another former Democratic President did something similar. Have we forgotten what Bill Clinton did? So in my mind we are overtaxed, period.