Christian chicken has crept all the way up the map to Philadelphia. Thank you, Jesus. Amen. I needed me some chicken and egg bagel power this morning. My body thinks it’s an hour ago and I’m just not awake enough for the job I get to do this morning. Oh, how I miss you Coca-Cola products of every invigorating caffeinated variety.
In a few minutes I’m singing three songs and then speaking about poverty and hope to about 800 students at Philadelphia Biblical University. Billy Dunn, the chaplain here, is making compassion and Compassion the spiritual theme for the campus this year. Today is kicking that theme off. I’ll let you know how it goes.
In the meantime, we’re curious, how many of you went to a “Christian college”? What were the pluses of that experience for you? How about the downside?
I went to Wheaton. I think that it was 90% up and 10% down. I made great friends. There was not a lot of pressure to get into drinking, sex, etc, before I was ready to think about consequences. But I also went to a public high school, which I also think is a good idea. Then I went to seminary at University of Chicago to balance Wheaton out. It was a great place to help me think “Christianly” about a wide variety of topics and gave some space for exploration through community involvement and serve as well.
Welcome to Philly Shaun. We call ourselves the “city that loves you back” (still trying to overcome the boo-bird reputation since we boo-ed Santa, Donovan McNabb and cheered the almost paralyzed Michael Irvin of the Dallas Cowboys). Yes, Chik-Fil-A’s are prevalent now and I also love the breakfast items.
I’m looking forward to your concert tonight (I’m 30 miles away right now).
I didn’t go to a “Christian” college, but I went to a “Catholic” college, Saint Joseph’s University in Philly (http://www.sju.edu/). The positives of the experience for me was the small class size (average 12 students per class for my senior year) and actually I’ll put in a plug for Jesuit education as it is service-minded and conservative yet peace-loving and evangelical. Check out this Jesuit website that I still read daily: (http://www.pray-as-you-go.org/). Personally, I love my school and wouldn’t change anything (except that I was robbed 3 times) and I have hope that Jesuits, called Society of Jesus, may continue in their inter-faith endeavors and we all may know that God’s favor = Jesus + nothing.
Yo! You’re in Philadelphia–my home city. Eat the native food and step away from your free fried chicken patties for a day, would ya? Have something Italian, something with the word “cheesesteak” in it (yes there are chicken cheesesteaks). Have a real soft pretzel. Eat a Tastykake. Please. For me.
Nancy, I didn’t know you were from Philly. You are right about Shaun eating something from our great city instead of Chik-Fil-A (although remember he gets that free now as a spokesperson).
Shaun, what can I bring you tonight? Do you like Butterscotch Krimpets, Peanut Butter Kandy Kakes? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tastykake) or a wonderful Philly soft pretzel? Let me know what you want and I’ll bring it with me (and also not charge you :0)
I am currently going to Lipscomb University. I love that we are service-oriented and that we are taught to live out Jesus’ love through our actions. I also love the education I have received. Many of the faculty, staff, and students are absolutely wonderful; they are kind and caring and would anything for anyone. However, I do not care for the administration. They are sending conflicting signals between their actions and their words. And they keep starting new programs instead of improving the programs they already have.
I went to a Christian college (Palm Beach Atlantic University in West Palm Beach Fla.). I would have to say that without it I would not be a Christian today sure there were some not so good things about it but in the long run without it I would be in a much poorer place spiritually.
I went to a very small Christian college in Jacksonville, TX. It felt a bit like being a church camp yearround. That is the upside. And the downside.
Not me. I went to Baylor.
I pursued both a baccalaureate and masters degree at private, Christian universities.
Can’t really think of any downsides… They have both afforded amazing academic opportunities that would not have been available at larger institutions.
Additionally, there’s something to be said for having faculty members who not only know each student, but who believe in and encourage one’s dreams!
I went to Union Univ in TN. I went because I wanted to be surrounded by people who shared my beliefs and that I would be encouraged as well as educated.
I found that I was mostly intimidated by the Christians that had it all together, that knew they were ministry bound. I was afraid of making mistakes in front of them.
It took me until my senior year and not even then that I looked at things so wrong.
I would not change my experience at all. It helped changed who I am now.
The downside I think is sometimes you stay in your Cristian bubble that you do not know how to act when you get out.
Just my opinion and Union is one heck of an awesome school.
Pros:
I met my hot wife at Baylor.
Cons:
I started smoking at Baylor. (My piano studio was filled with smoking international students, and I had smoked casually with my campus crusade friends in undergrad. So I didn’t get the “normal” Baylor bubble experience… However, they weren’t “heathens,” they just weren’t American Christians.)
Overall experience: Terrific.
Calvin college-Grand Rapids,MI
(Christian Reformed)
Pro- good education with Christian worldview, yet not stifling.
Con- $$$$$$$$
I really like Ken Hefner at Calvin College. I think his first name is Ken. He’s hosted me there a couple times. VERY smart guy and a great hang.
I did 2 years at a local community college: cheap, but not at all challenging (and oy, the walking through smoke clouds to get to class was horrid)
Then I finished my undergrad at George Fox University: NOT cheap, but small classes (even smaller than the community college), a campus that was truly Christian and not just in name – serving and loving the students and local community.
Then I got my masters at George Fox again: actually cheaper than some state schools (try to figure that one out), met my hubby!!! got a teaching degree without having to listen to all the socialist crap that I don’t believe in when it comes to teaching anyway. also one of the top ranked schools for teaching degrees in the whole northwest.
I would do it all again except hopefully go all 4 years undergrad at Fox since I felt like I missed out on a lot of the campus culture transferring in as an upper level student – although I had some other amazing experiences for lack of debt…
Didn’t go to a “Christian College”, but I wasn’t a Christian, so that wouldn’t have really made sense….
My daughter just started at Valley Forge Christian College (close to where you are at PBU) and I know I feel a bit better with her going to a school with Christian values, as opposed to the stuff that goes on at secular colleges (like what I saw when I went to U of Delaware).
Enjoy Philly and get a cheesesteak while you are here. I am sorry I will miss you on this trip up here…..
I went to a Christian university for one summer, before my senior year of high school, with a scholarship for the summer (one of these summer scholar type programs). The classes were good, and the teachers good, but I’m a bit jaded to the whole Christian schooling philosophy. I grew up in Abilene, which besides Abilene Christian (where I went for the summer) there is Harden Simmons and McMurry – three Christian universities in a town of 100,000 – and so I saw every day what the student population and administration were like. Honestly, there’s as much crap that goes on at these schools as at most public universities. The biggest and busiest liquor store in town is a couple of blocks from the ACU campus (pretty much defining who their clientèle is) – while drinking is against school policies, for student and employee alike, it is widespread. I also remember one guy bragging once in the mid-80s how ACU women had been ranked among the hottest by Playboy.
I see the same thing, really, through the Christian school (K-12) our church hosts/runs. They may not have as many problems with violence on campus, but that may simply be because they price out anyone whose parents don’t also clamp down on the kids to protect their own reputations (I know a couple of business presidents and corporate officers whose kids go there, for example). Otherwise, the same problems with sexuality, drinking/drugs, and other things.
I’m not saying that a Christian school is a terrible thing. I’m just saying that, with eyes open, you’ll generally see little difference between them and the public schools in the behavior of the students. Remarkably, the same can be said for the church in general as we see similar rates of divorce, addiction, etc. within the church as without. Two years ago one of the high school students accidentally killed himself “playing” the choking “game”, something he learned from his friends at the Christian school.
For my undergrad and grad work I went to Texas A&M. There’s a strip of road in College Station that consistently has the highest DWI rate in Texas, and the most popular bar across the street from campus has one of the highest revenues per square foot of any bar in the nation. But, the difference comes down to with whom you choose to associate. The church I went to had a college group of ~350 kids who were all there and active because they wanted to be and not because they had someone looking over their shoulder. Throughout the year we sent small groups on trips just about every weekend to work with other churches, do service projects, and work with the kids there. There were six or eight children’s homes we would have groups go to for a week every year to do the same. A considerable number of people would choose to spend a summer or a few years as missionaries in Thailand or the Philippines or Africa instead of pursuing a job from their field of study. And there were several other groups like this on campus, as well.
All this rambling is just to say that my experience at a public university was great and my experience at a Christian university was also good. But they were good because of my choices and not because of the setting.
I went to Union University, and I absolutely loved it. Being in an environment where Christ was lifted up in class, in chapel, in the cafeteria, was a great experience for me, and I loved that I had teachers who were intellectuals and great teachers, but also lovers of God who truly cared about people. Certainly it was not perfect, and as I lived with an RA, I was somewhat aware that not everyone on campus was a Christian or behaving like a Christian, but I think it was much easier to find other believers who would encourage and support me in my walk than it would have been at a public school. I got my MA from UT Knoxville, and it was a completely different experience for me, one that was quite eye-opening. I think the big downside of going to a Christian school is that you do tend to live in a bit of a bubble that isn’t fully aware of the outside world and all its influences, and so it’s possible that students are entering the workforce without ever having had their faith truly challenged. It’s easy to be a Christian at a Christian college, and while that can be good, it can also be dangerous because Christianity in many ways is not “easy.”
I now teach at Union, and I also taught at UT while earning my degree, and I can say that I do see a difference in the overall atmosphere of Union as compared with UT. While there may be “bad” things going on at both campuses, there is at least a strong contingent at Union that encourages godly behavior and reinforces that encouragement with opportunities to put one’s faith into practice. Is this always going to be the case with students at Christian college? Perhaps not, as Euphrony’s comment shows, but I know that there is a place for the Christian university, if for no other reason that to try and foster the development of faith and knowledge as compliments of one another, rather than enemies.
Didn’t go to a Christian college, but…
I know Billy Dunn and students from PBU come down and work with our ministry in the Kensington section of Philly. We live here, we’re full time missionaries.
Our church is Cornerstone Community Church, a few of the other missionaries I work with went to PBU!
Small world…
Carisa
I had a somewhat unique experience. I attended Ole Miss in Oxford, MS for my first 2 years of college, then transfered to Louisiana College, a small baptist college in Pineville, LA, for my junior and senior year. The 2 couldn’t have been more different in some areas and yet they both shared some similarities. I saw most of the same problems at each: drinking, drugs, etc. The difference was that at Ole Miss the drinking (and in some cases the drugs) were much more accepted as the norm and not hidden from the rest of the campus. At LC, all the same things happened, just usually behind closed doors or at a friends house off campus.
I think the pros of a Christian college are the same as those of any other small liberal arts school: small class size, caring professors, close student relationships.
The cons are about the same as well: the feel of a bubble community, $$$$$ (as stated above), little known outside of their community.
Would I have changed how I spent my college years? Not a bit. I loved both schools for different reasons and cherish my time at both.
I graduated from Oklahoma Baptist University in ‘06 and had a great experience there. One of the cons was that there were less than 2000 students (somewhere around 1500 on campus, I believe). I came from a high school with 1600 students, so it felt a little small sometimes. But it was also nice to at least recognize everyone on campus.
By going to a small, Christian college you do run the risk of living in a “Christian bubble.” You have to involve yourself with people who are constantly looking to serve others. Fortunately for me, OBU as a whole is “others focused.” There is a huge emphasis on missions and community ministry. For me, this was one of the biggest pros I encountered. I am currently finishing up my first term with the IMB (International Mission Board) and will be starting a second in January. I learned so much about missions in and out of the classroom at OBU.
Overall, I would not have changed my time there at all. I met some amazing people and lifelong friends and learned so much.
I attended Carson-Newman for one of my four years of college. I love the school except for the fact that my alcoholic brother lived about 10 miles down the road. At a school that small, it didn’t take that long for everyone to figure out who he was looking for when he’d scream my name in the dorms, looking for me. Aside from that, I loved the professors and the fact that we could pray before classes, talk freely about faith and express our ideas in our work without fear.
Beth
Hey Shaun!
I went to Cedarville University. I graduated in 2005. Overall, I REALLY enjoyed my time there.
I grew up going to a Christian elementary/middle school. My family moved when I was just starting high school; the majority of my high school years were spent in public school. I was grateful for the experience and learned a lot there, but I was certain that I wanted to go to a Christian university. Honestly, public universities terrified me because I heard endless stories of partying, drinking, and promiscuity. I was afraid that if I went to a public university, I would be severely tempted to engage in these activities. So, I decided to go to Cedarville where I knew I would never face such temptation. And I wasn’t.
I do agree that it feels like you are in a “Christian Bubble” at a Christian university. Even with outreach / ministry programs, you can still feel “locked” into the Christian community and it is hard to really know the “real world”. It has its pluses and minuses.
I grew a lot during my college years, but it has been over three years since I graduated. I think my faith was/is really tested once I was out in the “real world” away from Christian people. That is when you are really believing and having truth faith, I think. It is easy to believe when everyone else around you believes the same thing. But try to believe when you are surrounded by people who believe differently than you do. It’s not easy.
I am learning more about myself every day because of my nonChristian friends who can’t wrap their minds around why I believe in an “outdated, man-made, contradictory book” (the Bible) and a God who can’t possibly be loving because hell exists, and God allows people to go there. (Seriously, in my experience, this is the #1 reason people do not believe in God.)
It is a challenge.
–Jessica
Does Baylor count? Because the main lesson there was that conformity is the way to go, and I hated it. Luckily, I found some friends who were outside of the mold. Few of them were Christians, but I learned far more about sacrifice and laying down your life for others from them than from just about anywhere else.
I went to Oral Roberts Univ over in Tulsa for undergrad and grad. I guess staying for a second degree means that I enjoyed the experience enough
I really did enjoy it despite the “normal” frustrations with administrations and such (apparently that’s being cleaned up now). The students who attended were/are amazing, true life-friends. The profs were terribly inspiring and I still look up to them in my own journey of faith/academics. Great times. But I’m also glad I’m done. For now.
hi shaun!
i met you briefly after you concert at PBU
(we had an akward goodybye, if that rings any bells)
to answer your question
pluses:
-around people who understood me, where i came from spiritually
-learning more about God and aorund peopel who shared that desire
minuses:
-doing Bible homework..you can fool yourself thinking “because i read the Bible all the time, i’m close with God.”
-sometimes, i feel suffocated. i think of it as a rough christian equivalent of the “stepford wives.” only not everyone is a “holy christian” if there is such a thing.
Hi Mr. Groves
Thank you for coming to lead our school in worship yesterday! I really appreciated your music and your focus on the kingship of our Lord!
God bless you!!
You’re welcome, Jeff.
(Did everyone catch that? MR. GROVES, young Jeff said. MR. GROVES. That stings.)
I went to Northwestern College in St. Paul, MN. I loved it. But it was the right place at the right time for me.
Pros and cons would be similar to other people’s lists. Christian colleges can be hypocritical, bubbles that stagnate. But they can also be grounding, encouraging and uplifting. Much depends on what you make of it.
I thought I hated God when I started at Duke. Knowing that Jesus orchestrated my capture in the midst of the insanity of freshman sorority rush and Blue Devil b-ball bodes well for the next crop of college go-ers, regardless of where they go. It was much later that I read with interest the statistics that told me I had no business receiving Christ at 17.
I always assumed that I should be jealous of the fellowship with students and professors that Christian colleges must provide.
When I turned down an invitation to the frat party of the year from a rich stud, my well-meaning friends arranged an intervention. They were convinced that I would need to be hospitalized since my decision was so at odds with who I was. What they didn’t understand was that 36 hours earlier, I had pulled the drapes, turned off the phone and locked my dorm room door so that no one would “catch me” surrendering my life to Christ. I still get together with the people I met at that first Christian retreat- the missionary, congressman, pastor, financial planner, drug company executive, the entrepreneur, lawyer, education magnate and the radio show host- our life paths so very different but still united in our hunger to be transformed into His image.
I don’t think I could have asked for more from any college.
On a more serious note: When it comes to rating the relative merits of college sports fans, I would hesitate to have to judge the relative fervor of any given Aggie vs. a Cameron Crazy.
I personally had an awful experience at PBU. And going to a bible college, as weird as it may sound, caused me to really lose my faith. I saw so much hypocrisy from students and professors that I no longer wanted to associate with the entire Christian faith. I am on my way back to finding faith but I tell you, PBU was a real trying time for me.
I now teach at Union, and I also taught at UT, while earning my degree and I can say that I do see the difference in the overall atmosphere Union, compared to UT. While it may be bad things happening on both campuses, at least, a strong contingent in the Union, which encourages conduct and godly, that strengthens support for the opportunity to put their faith into action. Is this always the case with students at Christian colleges? Perhaps not as Euphrony remark shows, but I know that there is room for the Christian university if no other reason that to try and stimulate the development of faith and knowledge, as compliments to each other, rather than enemies.