Comments on: Numbers http://shaungroves.com/2008/03/numbers/ Thu, 09 Feb 2012 01:47:17 -0600 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v= By: Leilani http://shaungroves.com/2008/03/numbers/#comment-7395 Leilani Mon, 08 Sep 2008 03:58:28 +0000 http://shaungroves.com/2008/03/numbers/#comment-7395 <p>We’re all on a path to die. It’s the way we’re made. There is an expiration date. Somehow the choices we make—enlist in the military, support the terrorist organizations—can lead to the cause of death directly. Far too many other deaths seem needless—but it’s still the way of things in this life. (My boss currently has brain cancer and is given a bad prognosis—why her or the “innocents” in war? I trust that it is because God has a plan.) </p> <p> My greatest concern is how then do we live? Did we make the best decisions with the information we had at the time? Did we stand for justice where possible? Did we honor our families and country? I find many “anti-war” attitudes naive. Every day, I wake up to a battle with an unseen enemy that wants me dead. The Bible says to fight that in the spiritual realm, and when it’s manifested in the natural dimension do we not fight there, too? </p> We’re all on a path to die. It’s the way we’re made. There is an expiration date. Somehow the choices we make—enlist in the military, support the terrorist organizations—can lead to the cause of death directly. Far too many other deaths seem needless—but it’s still the way of things in this life. (My boss currently has brain cancer and is given a bad prognosis—why her or the “innocents” in war? I trust that it is because God has a plan.)

My greatest concern is how then do we live? Did we make the best decisions with the information we had at the time? Did we stand for justice where possible? Did we honor our families and country? I find many “anti-war” attitudes naive. Every day, I wake up to a battle with an unseen enemy that wants me dead. The Bible says to fight that in the spiritual realm, and when it’s manifested in the natural dimension do we not fight there, too?

]]> By: Rich Kirkpatrick http://shaungroves.com/2008/03/numbers/#comment-7394 Rich Kirkpatrick Sun, 30 Mar 2008 04:35:11 +0000 http://shaungroves.com/2008/03/numbers/#comment-7394 <p>This numbers game is only “fair” if you include the 300,000 to 400,000 that Saddam has killed.  How about 100,000 genocide--most conservative number available. </p> <p> It is childish to ask now if we had to go to war--like asking should I have spilled milk or not.  Once there, whether by brilliance or ignorance, we have to have integrity with our word. </p> <p> War is terrible.  Thats what this means.  Question, should we be pacifists as Christians or not? Not saying we should not be, but there it is. </p> This numbers game is only “fair” if you include the 300,000 to 400,000 that Saddam has killed.  How about 100,000 genocide–most conservative number available.

It is childish to ask now if we had to go to war–like asking should I have spilled milk or not.  Once there, whether by brilliance or ignorance, we have to have integrity with our word.

War is terrible.  Thats what this means.  Question, should we be pacifists as Christians or not? Not saying we should not be, but there it is.

]]> By: eugene http://shaungroves.com/2008/03/numbers/#comment-7393 eugene Sat, 29 Mar 2008 02:57:49 +0000 http://shaungroves.com/2008/03/numbers/#comment-7393 <p>and the latter three numbers are conservative.  hundreds of allied soldiers should be added to the 2nd image. and interpretation varies… </p> <p> we need to ask the question again and loudly:  did we have to go to war? </p> <p> thanks for the courage to post this. </p> <p> fwiw: i posted some additional stats on my blog: </p> <p> <a href="http://eugenecho.wordpress.com/2008/02/29/george-bush-the-worst-president/" rel="nofollow">http://eugenecho.wordpress.com/2008/02/29/george-bush-the-worst-president/</a> </p> and the latter three numbers are conservative.  hundreds of allied soldiers should be added to the 2nd image. and interpretation varies…

we need to ask the question again and loudly:  did we have to go to war?

thanks for the courage to post this.

fwiw: i posted some additional stats on my blog:

http://eugenecho.wordpress.com/2008/02/29/george-bush-the-worst-president/

]]> By: jeff http://shaungroves.com/2008/03/numbers/#comment-7392 jeff Thu, 27 Mar 2008 16:14:37 +0000 http://shaungroves.com/2008/03/numbers/#comment-7392 <p>the thoughts of man pale in comparison to the words of Christ ... </p> the thoughts of man pale in comparison to the words of Christ …

]]> By: frank http://shaungroves.com/2008/03/numbers/#comment-7391 frank Wed, 26 Mar 2008 22:15:53 +0000 http://shaungroves.com/2008/03/numbers/#comment-7391 <p>"My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, my servants would have been fighting...but my kingdom is not from the world.” </p> <p> Jesus;John 18:36 </p> “My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, my servants would have been fighting…but my kingdom is not from the world.”

Jesus;John 18:36

]]> By: aaron ivey http://shaungroves.com/2008/03/numbers/#comment-7390 aaron ivey Wed, 26 Mar 2008 20:11:06 +0000 http://shaungroves.com/2008/03/numbers/#comment-7390 <p>Jesus For President. </p> Jesus For President.

]]> By: Veretax http://shaungroves.com/2008/03/numbers/#comment-7389 Veretax Wed, 26 Mar 2008 13:50:48 +0000 http://shaungroves.com/2008/03/numbers/#comment-7389 <p>An interesting Perspective Rebekah, however, if your waiting around for God from on high to call us to arms you may be waiting a long time.  I am not a believe in any “special” revelation taking place today.  That pretty much ended with the apostles.  What we can do is make sure that when we do get drawn into the fight that we are doing so for the right reasons, that we are doing our best to curtail the loss of civilian life as much as is practical. Like it or not Kings rule and they also are responsible for the common defense of their people.  The people we are fighting in Iraq now are not the same people we fought during the invasion.  This is an entirely different war, and it is a war we must win.  Its tragic that some loss of life is inevitable in war, but to say that it is better to never pick up an arm is ludicrous.  Do you believe we were wrong to take up arms to liberate Europe from the Nazis? That’s my feeling on this. WWII taught America we have to be aware of what is going on around the world.  Now I’ll agree there are times where we’ve stuck our nose in and its debatable how much good we did (they are still squabbling over in the Balkans), but I think as a nation we’ve done a lot more good than we have done evil. </p> An interesting Perspective Rebekah, however, if your waiting around for God from on high to call us to arms you may be waiting a long time.  I am not a believe in any “special” revelation taking place today.  That pretty much ended with the apostles.  What we can do is make sure that when we do get drawn into the fight that we are doing so for the right reasons, that we are doing our best to curtail the loss of civilian life as much as is practical. Like it or not Kings rule and they also are responsible for the common defense of their people.  The people we are fighting in Iraq now are not the same people we fought during the invasion.  This is an entirely different war, and it is a war we must win.  Its tragic that some loss of life is inevitable in war, but to say that it is better to never pick up an arm is ludicrous.  Do you believe we were wrong to take up arms to liberate Europe from the Nazis? That’s my feeling on this. WWII taught America we have to be aware of what is going on around the world.  Now I’ll agree there are times where we’ve stuck our nose in and its debatable how much good we did (they are still squabbling over in the Balkans), but I think as a nation we’ve done a lot more good than we have done evil.

]]> By: Rebekah http://shaungroves.com/2008/03/numbers/#comment-7388 Rebekah Wed, 26 Mar 2008 13:23:29 +0000 http://shaungroves.com/2008/03/numbers/#comment-7388 <p>As Christians, the lost of life should never be amusing. We should never callously dismiss death as less than what it is: the complete and final separation from God or the complete and final restoration to God. We mourn the loss of innocent life.  We pray for forgiveness for our pride and callousness.  We hope in a better life here on Earth.  We share the overwhelming all consuming love and grace of Christ.  Our Saviour lives.  Our gracious holy loving healing powerful King of all kings and nations lives.  We do not pick up a sword because he has not commanded us to do so.  We do not argue pridefully with Scripture because we are commanded not to do so.  We do not judge those outside of the church because we are commanded not to do so.  We love the poor and needy because we are commanded to do so.  We love love love love love because we have been loved.  No excuses.  No arguments.  We believe in a God who loves.  We believe in a God who cherishes life, period.  NOT JUST AMERICAN LIFE. </p> As Christians, the lost of life should never be amusing. We should never callously dismiss death as less than what it is: the complete and final separation from God or the complete and final restoration to God. We mourn the loss of innocent life.  We pray for forgiveness for our pride and callousness.  We hope in a better life here on Earth.  We share the overwhelming all consuming love and grace of Christ.  Our Saviour lives.  Our gracious holy loving healing powerful King of all kings and nations lives.  We do not pick up a sword because he has not commanded us to do so.  We do not argue pridefully with Scripture because we are commanded not to do so.  We do not judge those outside of the church because we are commanded not to do so.  We love the poor and needy because we are commanded to do so.  We love love love love love because we have been loved.  No excuses.  No arguments.  We believe in a God who loves.  We believe in a God who cherishes life, period.  NOT JUST AMERICAN LIFE.

]]> By: Veretax http://shaungroves.com/2008/03/numbers/#comment-7387 Veretax Wed, 26 Mar 2008 13:21:41 +0000 http://shaungroves.com/2008/03/numbers/#comment-7387 <p>Shawn, I hate to break it to you, but without the OT Jesus is the Fullfillment of nothing.  You can’t take the NT without the OT with it.  Yes we live in an era of grace, but that doesn’t remove the relevance of events recorded in the bible ages before Christ came to earth.  </p> <p> Now picture this shawn.  I see a muslim extremist he’s walking towards me screaming Death to the infidel with a bomb strapped to his chest.  Now Its clear what his intentions are.  Now God has gifted me with a Fire arm, a pistol perhaps, do I take aim and prevent him from detonating that weapon and harming others around me, or do I say well I’m supposed to love and then do nothing.  The obligation to “love your enemy” does not absolve you from your right to self defense.  BTW Jesus drove the Money changers out of the Temple with a WHIP! yeah, I bet they thought that was loving eh? </p> Shawn, I hate to break it to you, but without the OT Jesus is the Fullfillment of nothing.  You can’t take the NT without the OT with it.  Yes we live in an era of grace, but that doesn’t remove the relevance of events recorded in the bible ages before Christ came to earth. 

Now picture this shawn.  I see a muslim extremist he’s walking towards me screaming Death to the infidel with a bomb strapped to his chest.  Now Its clear what his intentions are.  Now God has gifted me with a Fire arm, a pistol perhaps, do I take aim and prevent him from detonating that weapon and harming others around me, or do I say well I’m supposed to love and then do nothing.  The obligation to “love your enemy” does not absolve you from your right to self defense.  BTW Jesus drove the Money changers out of the Temple with a WHIP! yeah, I bet they thought that was loving eh?

]]> By: Shawn Bashor http://shaungroves.com/2008/03/numbers/#comment-7386 Shawn Bashor Wed, 26 Mar 2008 12:51:32 +0000 http://shaungroves.com/2008/03/numbers/#comment-7386 <p>For all of you who like to use the O.T. and God the Father using the nation of Israel to complete His work, I hope you follow all the Levitical laws and I hope you believe in and practice polygamy (having more than one wife). </p> <p> I also hope you get to the part where they hoped for a messiah. </p> <p> Then I hope you get to the part in the Gospel where Jesus helped the Samaritan man and do a little research of the historical and coultural context of that story. </p> <p> Then for those of you who like Revelations so much and use it to fit into your idea, do a little research on that book. </p> <p> I whole heartedly believe it is my duty as a follower of Jesus to love even the muslim extremist who wish to do me harm. I promise nothing takes the steam out of a fight more than someone not wanting to fight. </p> For all of you who like to use the O.T. and God the Father using the nation of Israel to complete His work, I hope you follow all the Levitical laws and I hope you believe in and practice polygamy (having more than one wife).

I also hope you get to the part where they hoped for a messiah.

Then I hope you get to the part in the Gospel where Jesus helped the Samaritan man and do a little research of the historical and coultural context of that story.

Then for those of you who like Revelations so much and use it to fit into your idea, do a little research on that book.

I whole heartedly believe it is my duty as a follower of Jesus to love even the muslim extremist who wish to do me harm. I promise nothing takes the steam out of a fight more than someone not wanting to fight.

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