I’m having lunch with one of the authors of The Real War On Terror. We met a few months back, the last time I was up in Ohio. Jonathan hasn’t gone to seminary, isn’t employed as a theologian, and is Doogie Hauser young but he and his co-author have written something pretty unique (A mixture of story, scripture, history, answers and questions) on the subject of Christian non-violence. If all goes well our hang time today will make into a Shlogcast someday.
What kinds of things would you ask Jonathan, or anyone who’s a believer in Christian non-violence, about the subject?
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Did I read Shlogcast? Now you’re talking. My question about Christian non-violence is how to respond to someone who quotes Ecclesiastes 3:8 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ecc%203:8b;&version=31;
in justifying the Christian involvement in war for “the greater good”.
Thanks,
Kevin
Wait, is Christian non-violence abstaining from all violence or use of force? Or just being very very very very careful about when?
Abstaining from all violence or use of force.
Is there such a thing as a Christian who is FOR violence?
Well, I would ask if you were alive during the civil war or WW2 would you have fought or at least not judged another brother who did?
I don’t think anyone is ‘for’ violence btw.
Sometimes walking away from the fight takes courage sometimes staying and fighting takes more.
Well, I think that some Christians would support the use of force in situations, like if a riot broke out or the threat of the use of force if someone was threatening the lives of others. Not FOR violence in the sense of yay let’s go kill people, but acknowledging the need for it at times.
i would simply ask them why they believe what they believe. simple enough. i would expect them to use the Bible as a key part of their point of view. and i would listen.
I would ask if there is a time where the use of force could be justified. I think back to Hitler, so many people did nothing. In a case such as this, what would be the better choice other than choosing war?
Well…How’d lunch go? Did you beat him up?
I would ask whether he thinks words are violence and how he thinks one can implement the principle of nonviolence in the verbal realm. Most of us will never have a reason to get in a physical fight (even according to people who believe that violence is a legitimate recourse for self defense). Speaking for myself, though, I have a much more difficult time with my tongue. Intellectually, I’m not sure Jesus thought it was less of a sin give someone a tongue lashing than to give them a shiner. At the same time, my actions say that I think there is a big difference. I guess that makes me a hypocrite in that area. Regarding Jesus statements in the sermon on the mount, I sometimes wonder if he meant that literally, or if saying you hate your brother being equivalent to murder was kind of like poking out your eye to keep from sinning.
What do you think or what did Jonathan say?
MB
@Shawn Bashor… that was awesome! I mean, terrible… but totally awesome.
“Sometimes walking away from the fight takes courage sometimes staying and fighting takes more.”
What?
And sometimes staying in a fight that you started for no reason is what?
I was referring to wars past. It would have been easier for our country men to walk away after Pearl Harbor, call in an isolated event and let Europe burn.
I would have been easier to let the South split away, not stand and fight, not hide slaves on the underground railroad. Thing like that. . .Easier to let a base get blown up in Sudia Arabia, a ship in Yemen, the World Trade Center parking garage and go about our buisness and act like those things don’t mean anything in the big picture.
Shaun asked what we ask, and those are my questions.
To the one who asked the questions about words. . .I thought that was a great question. We can so often rip someone apart with our words and perhaps they will carry that scar with them forever! Thanks for bringing that up, it provoked me to more study.
Matthew 10:28- “Do not fear those who Kill the Body but are unable to kill the Soul, but rather fear him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.”
I was just reading this and it kind of stuck out to me. Christ tells us to NOT FEAR MAN or DEATH! I also struggled with vs.37- “He who loves his father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who loves his son or doughter more than Me is not worthy of Me.” But in vs.38-39 He gose on to say- “He who dose not take his cross and follow Me is not worthy of Me.” “He who has found his life will lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake will find it.”
So what I get out of these verses is If we put out Family & Friends (or country) before our alliegence to God and Christ and what they ask us to do. We are as Good as gone in the Kingdom of heaven. And if we are not willing to follow Christ to the cross and also to be crusified there with Him, We will never truly live.
Hi. This is Jonathan, the above mentioned author who got to eat lunch with Shaun on Friday. Thought I’d take some time to answer the questions you all are posing. This will probably come in installments, with some parts from the co-author, Derek.
First, thanks to Shaun for reading our book and asking us to lunch. I’ll answer Shawn Bashor’s question: How’d lunch go? Did you beat him up?
I thought lunch was very good and no, Shaun didn’t beat me up. As some of you probably know, he is great company and (at least I think) we had a blast talking.
For SHAUNFAN: Folks are often confused by the violence of the old testament. First, God does not like human violence. He is angry with Cain when he kills Abel (Gen 4:10-12), He won’t allow David to build the Temple because he is stained with the blood of men he killed (1 Chronicles 28:3), and He says that the reason he brought the flood was because the human race had become too violent(Genesis 6:13).
Second, God promised to send a messiah (who would bring about a lasting peace) through the Hebrew prophets. see Isaiah (Isaiah 2:2-4), Micah (Micah 4:1-3, 5:2-4), Hosea (Hosea 2:16-23), and Zechariah (Zech: 9:9-10. Jesus is the Messiah, the King of Kings, Wonderful Counselor, the Prince of Peace (Isaiah 9:6). Since the church inherited the Kingdom of Heaven from the Apostles, who inherited it from Jesus (Luke 12:31-34), we are that Peace. The time for War ended when the cross brought about the last days (Isaiah 2:2, Micah 4:1, Joel, 2:28, Acts 2:17) which were to be days of Peace.
J-Mo: There are Christians who are for violence, but I think that they shouldn’t be….
More to come…