Melinda is making some interesting points in defense of “mega-church” mentality.  I think after reading all of the responses, I am leaning towards her way of thinking although with the caveat that not everyone I saw waiting in line for an iPhone (including the mayor of Philadelphia-John Street which I thought was totally inappropriate) is thinking that way unfortunately.

Kevin

That’s not to say that the God/theology/church/politic/value system we “create” isn’t true in part or in whole.

Brant has blogged about how we process new ideas.  He’s said we decide when we hear something new if that new idea validates what we already think or goes against it.  If it validates what we already believe we accept the new idea and if it doesn’t we reject it.

I think he’s right.

Many of us go to churches, in general, whose methods and decor and theology etc validate who we already are.  And if we are the once creating that church (or charged with that task as “pastors”) then, yes, I think we create a church that validates who we are and what we already value.

When I sat in worship planing meetings at a mega-church in my early twenties I pushed for more current music because – surprise – as a young guy in love with music and clueless about what the “worship” meant biblically, this approach validated my values and interests.

Is it really all that controversial to suggest that when a guy in love with gadgetry, the new, the best, the biggest, the cool, is on staff at a church it MIGHT be his tendency to build a church experience or others that hinges upon gadgetry, the new, the best, the biggest, and the cool?  Is that really such a preposterous assertion?

My mistake was bringing the iPhone into the post.  Apparently too sacred a golden calf to tip.

The iPhone was brought up as the catalyst for making me think along these lines.  I noticed that a lot of these pastors and worship pastors are blogging about it, counting down the days, persuading others to buy it, teaching them how to cancel their old cellular contracts to get one.  Saying the phone itself seemed like a waste of money was more of a personal aside – a rant – that wasn’t the core of my thought in this post.  That was just poor writing on my part – unfocused.  Apologies.

But, while we’re on the topic…No, I don’t know how much enough is.  I’ve said that here before.  And, no, I don’t think having money is evil.  But I don’t think we get off easy by clinging to the “love of money” verse either.  How do we know what we love?  Is it what we spend most of our time on?  The average American man spends more time working than their parents did and less time with their kids – less than 7 minutes a day in conversation (which includes stuff like “pass the salt.”) Is it what we get pissed about being asked to let go of?  I’ve seen that on the road as I ask Christians to give up $32 to save a life or in these comments where some of thou dost protest too much NOT to love money.

I don’t live my office chair.  Not at all.  And if you were to blog that I should give my office chair away because there is a man forced to work sitting on a concrete floor for eight hours a day, well, I’d give it up in a flash.  No angst.  No problem.

The presence of such angst at me suggesting that an iPhone may be a waste of money, a high priced replacement for a satisfactory phone we already own makes me wonder: I either communicated poorly and the WAY I spoke and not WHAT I spoke has ticked some folks off and confused others….OR…well, love is in the air…

Anyway, at the speed with which Apple is developing and launching new products, I’m sure whatever outrageously expensive electronic gadget they come up with next will be available soon to perpetuate this materialistic feeding frenzy.

None the less.  This is why I come get me some Shlog everyday.  Because at least when I am standing in line tomorrow, I will feel bad. 

Please note and insert the sarcasm where needed. 

This has actually been one of the best threads I have read in months.

Los

I attend a “Mega-Church” As a matter a fact it was at this “Mega-church” that I came to know the Lord.  I love my “mega-church”.  Because it is there that I learned that God loved me! It is there that I am learning to Fear God!  It is there that I am learning Holiness. 

Yes, we have more gods here in the US then India does.  But ours are called TV, computers, self, spouses, children, foods,and yes even iphones.  But having any one of these things does not make a person less Godly.  It’s when these things have control over you and you lust after them.  I mean I wouldn’t wait in line for one, but if I found that I had the money for one I would buy one for my husband (he loves Apple).  But that’s just me.  I like to give stuff, I like to see people’s faces when they get things.  And not just the things they need, but the things they want as well.  I think that it’s that way with God too.  He likes to reward His children.  He likes to see us blessed.  Why should only the worldly people have nice stuff? 

BTW I can think of lots of ways that a person could use an Iphone for our Lord.

Shaun, you remind me a lot of Keith Green.  Have you ever heard his teaching “The Man Behind the Message”?  If not and you want to listen I could send you the link.  Let me know.

Do you think we can still be (ahem) “relevant” without all that “cool” crap?  Because I am certainly willing to try.

Andy, interesting point, and very humbly put.  And no I did not think it was rude to disagree with me.  However, what we are talking about here is a grey area.  Like it or not, it is grey.  Meaning, there is nary a scripture that tells a man not to buy an iPhone.  There is however plenty of scripture that tells you to be kind and generous.  So if you aren’t kind and generous and you buy the iphone, then your problem is with your lack of being kind and generous, not the iPhone, which is inherently neither good nor evil, however expensive. 

What I meant by that comment was that I don’t think that buying an Iphone or any expensive item can be theologically justified but neither can a theological case be made for NOT buying it.  It all depends on motive, which makes it a grey area.  True, God does care about how we spend our money but the iPhone by itself has nothing to do with God, (other than He holds all things together by his thought, including the iPhone,) therefore it buying it cannot be theologically justified or nullified unless you include motive. 

I hear what you are saying about excess but I think you should be prepared to take that philosophy to the extreme because you can’t be choosy with extreme philosophies lest you become hypocritical. 

That includes things like the power windows on your car, air conditioning in your house or apartment, any and all eating out, (in fact, any food that you don’t grow or water you don’t dig out of the ground yourself could be considered extravagance.) coffee, tea, driving altogether (if you can take a bus), television, your computer, a home that runs on electricity, and finally all and any cell phone devices… basically, you should become Amish.

Because whether you like it or not, the person buying the iphone just may be giving 100 times as much to ease world hunger as you or me or Shaun and do not feel that buying the iphone is sloppy shopping.  And what of the person who gets the iPhone for a gift?  Should they return it and send the money to Compassion?  Maybe, maybe not.  It is a matter of personal spirituality and between you and the Holy Spirit, (like Kat is saying) between the iphone owner and God.  (What a silly sentence.)

Is the housewife who pays a bit more for the cute pants at Target instead of the frosted high-rise pipe legs they could get down at the good will for 30 cents wrong?  Or the mom who buys the fancy stroller with the bike wheels instead of the cheap one that takes a rocket scientist to unfold and pack after it injures her fingers.  That is between them and the Lord and I’m not about to pounce down on some lady in judgment over not wanting the high-rise pipe-legged jeans over the more expensive but better functioning stroller.

So even though my statement about “God caring about the iPhone” was a little broad, I said that feeling that most of what is going on with the whole “does God care if we buy an iPhone issue” is good old-fashioned jealousy.  Most of us here want one but cannot afford one and even if we could, “why, we would spend that money on the poor.” Which helps us feel better and gives us a higher ground to bash the guys who have it.  (All said as they finish watching the tutorial on Youtube and get depressed at its 600 dollar price tag that momma won’t go for.)

The only rules I might be tempted to dole out to a buyer facing this moral dilemma is:

If you cannot afford the Iphone, then you shouldn’t own it.  If you start to worship the iPhone you should get rid of it.  If you can afford it while still being twice as generous to others, then I see no reason to not buy it. It has several useful functionalities, besides just the general aesthetic pleasure of purchasing anything so ingeniously designed.  (Personally, I bargain shop and I am a chinch.  So I’ll wait for the price to lower, for Cingular to offer a deal, or buy it on Ebay later.)

So we should be cautious of standing on our pillars of righteousness and casting down judgment upon those irresponsible heathens who waste their money on such frivolities and afterwards we go home and crank the air conditioning all summer racking up over 1000 bucks extra for a 9 degree creature comfort and watch selections from our extensive DVD collection that probably cost us well over 1000 smackers.