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	<title>Comments on: Are We Bright Or Are They Right?</title>
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	<link>http://shaungroves.com/2007/06/are-we-bright-or-are-they-right/</link>
	<description>Official site of Shaun Groves - musician, speaker, advocate for children living in poverty</description>
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		<title>By: Best engineering Colleges in mumbai</title>
		<link>http://shaungroves.com/2007/06/are-we-bright-or-are-they-right/#comment-12401</link>
		<dc:creator>Best engineering Colleges in mumbai</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Jan 2009 15:51:25 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;I’ve found this article beeing very useful. Thank you
&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I’ve found this article beeing very useful. Thank you</p>
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		<title>By: Cali Amy</title>
		<link>http://shaungroves.com/2007/06/are-we-bright-or-are-they-right/#comment-12400</link>
		<dc:creator>Cali Amy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jul 2007 17:15:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shaungroves.com/2007/06/are-we-bright-or-are-they-right/#comment-12400</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I had to come back to this topic because of the last Harry Potter book.&#160; I&#8217;m surprised that depsite the many symbols of Christianity, the many Christian thematic elements, and then the blatant things like having Scripture on tombstones, plus an admission of faith by the author herself--Christians still find Harry Potter to be really dangerous.
&lt;br /&gt;
I have been trying to decide why (besides ignorance of not having read the books) this would be so.&#160; Here are my theories:
&lt;br /&gt;
J.K. Rowling did not come out and say from the start that she was a Christian.
&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;
The books, though rife with Christian ideas, are not allegorical like Narnia.
&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;
And the theory that makes the most sense to me--to describe the very fictional magic in the book, Rowling uses, at times, the word witchcraft.
&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;
So rejection of this, or a song with the word wine, etc.&#160; must be fear.
&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I had to come back to this topic because of the last Harry Potter book.&nbsp; I&#8217;m surprised that depsite the many symbols of Christianity, the many Christian thematic elements, and then the blatant things like having Scripture on tombstones, plus an admission of faith by the author herself&#8211;Christians still find Harry Potter to be really dangerous.<br />
<br />
I have been trying to decide why (besides ignorance of not having read the books) this would be so.&nbsp; Here are my theories:<br />
<br />
J.K. Rowling did not come out and say from the start that she was a Christian.
</p>
<p>
The books, though rife with Christian ideas, are not allegorical like Narnia.
</p>
<p>
And the theory that makes the most sense to me&#8211;to describe the very fictional magic in the book, Rowling uses, at times, the word witchcraft.
</p>
<p>
So rejection of this, or a song with the word wine, etc.&nbsp; must be fear.</p>
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		<title>By: michelle</title>
		<link>http://shaungroves.com/2007/06/are-we-bright-or-are-they-right/#comment-12399</link>
		<dc:creator>michelle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Jul 2007 01:01:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shaungroves.com/2007/06/are-we-bright-or-are-they-right/#comment-12399</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Hi Shaun - it&#8217;s Michelle from Faith Cafe. It&#8217;s official...I&#8217;m no longer just a shlog-lurker. &lt;img src=&quot;http://www.shaungroves.com/images/smileys/smile.gif&quot; width=&quot;19&quot; height=&quot;19&quot; alt=&quot;smile&quot; style=&quot;border:0;&quot; /&gt;
&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;
I&#8217;m fascinated by this topic. After reading through all the comments, here are the random thoughts that popped up in my brain&#8230;
&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;
* Christian radio music has become a pop music subset. Flip over to your local Top 40 station...hear many metaphors?
&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;
* The rise in popularity of writers like Donald Miller and pastors like Rob Bell give me hope.
&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;
* Call Amy said we like things to sound &#8220;distinctively Christian.&#8221; I think this is so true and a huge part of this whole question. Most Christians are really scared of not being blatantly recognized as &#8220;Christian.&#8221; Call Amy also said &#8220;We like to keep our compartments.&#8221; Again, very true. It&#8217;s why stereotypes are such an integral part of our interaction with other people. For better or worse, they help us classify and categorize others so we &#8220;understand&#8221; (quotes important there) how to mingle with them.
&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;
* Shaun G. asked Call Amy if the motive for buying Christian fiction is different from buying non-Christian fiction. I&#8217;m with CA, I love to read in general, I always have. At some point in my teen years, I started reading Christian fiction to - I don&#8217;t know - make myself feel better about all the non-Christian fiction I was reading. Or something. Anyway, nowadays, I just pick up what looks interesting. Sometimes it&#8217;s Christian, sometimes it&#8217;s not. And all too often it comes down to cover design. I&#8217;m really bad about judging books by their covers. (BTW, I&#8217;m not using that as a metaphor...I mean literal books and literal covers.)
&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;
* Finally, the radio as a medium is not really designed to provoke deep discussion among listeners, especially not the way it&#8217;s used now. (Back in the day, when families allegedly gathered around the radio to listen to programming, things may have been different.) In general, people use the radio as background or filler noise. They may get enough to sing along with the chorus, but they aren&#8217;t usually processing the info. That doesn&#8217;t set up a great environment for the Gospel to be presented in a way that attracts non-believers or challenges believers.
&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;
I don&#8217;t know that there are any solutions here or if what we&#8217;re talking about could even be classified as a &#8220;problem.&#8221; It is what it is and as long as people are talking (or blogging) about it, there&#8217;s still hope.
&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Shaun &#8211; it&#8217;s Michelle from Faith Cafe. It&#8217;s official&#8230;I&#8217;m no longer just a shlog-lurker. <img src="http://www.shaungroves.com/images/smileys/smile.gif" width="19" height="19" alt="smile" style="border:0;" />
</p>
<p>
I&#8217;m fascinated by this topic. After reading through all the comments, here are the random thoughts that popped up in my brain&#8230;
</p>
<p>
* Christian radio music has become a pop music subset. Flip over to your local Top 40 station&#8230;hear many metaphors?
</p>
<p>
* The rise in popularity of writers like Donald Miller and pastors like Rob Bell give me hope.
</p>
<p>
* Call Amy said we like things to sound &#8220;distinctively Christian.&#8221; I think this is so true and a huge part of this whole question. Most Christians are really scared of not being blatantly recognized as &#8220;Christian.&#8221; Call Amy also said &#8220;We like to keep our compartments.&#8221; Again, very true. It&#8217;s why stereotypes are such an integral part of our interaction with other people. For better or worse, they help us classify and categorize others so we &#8220;understand&#8221; (quotes important there) how to mingle with them.
</p>
<p>
* Shaun G. asked Call Amy if the motive for buying Christian fiction is different from buying non-Christian fiction. I&#8217;m with CA, I love to read in general, I always have. At some point in my teen years, I started reading Christian fiction to &#8211; I don&#8217;t know &#8211; make myself feel better about all the non-Christian fiction I was reading. Or something. Anyway, nowadays, I just pick up what looks interesting. Sometimes it&#8217;s Christian, sometimes it&#8217;s not. And all too often it comes down to cover design. I&#8217;m really bad about judging books by their covers. (BTW, I&#8217;m not using that as a metaphor&#8230;I mean literal books and literal covers.)
</p>
<p>
* Finally, the radio as a medium is not really designed to provoke deep discussion among listeners, especially not the way it&#8217;s used now. (Back in the day, when families allegedly gathered around the radio to listen to programming, things may have been different.) In general, people use the radio as background or filler noise. They may get enough to sing along with the chorus, but they aren&#8217;t usually processing the info. That doesn&#8217;t set up a great environment for the Gospel to be presented in a way that attracts non-believers or challenges believers.
</p>
<p>
I don&#8217;t know that there are any solutions here or if what we&#8217;re talking about could even be classified as a &#8220;problem.&#8221; It is what it is and as long as people are talking (or blogging) about it, there&#8217;s still hope.</p>
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		<title>By: no longer nancy</title>
		<link>http://shaungroves.com/2007/06/are-we-bright-or-are-they-right/#comment-12398</link>
		<dc:creator>no longer nancy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Jul 2007 01:00:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shaungroves.com/2007/06/are-we-bright-or-are-they-right/#comment-12398</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;so what are some &#8220;Christian&#8221; songs that have metaphors.&#160; they are out there.&#160; why did they make it on the air waves?
&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>so what are some &#8220;Christian&#8221; songs that have metaphors.&nbsp; they are out there.&nbsp; why did they make it on the air waves?</p>
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		<title>By: Vicki</title>
		<link>http://shaungroves.com/2007/06/are-we-bright-or-are-they-right/#comment-12397</link>
		<dc:creator>Vicki</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Jul 2007 00:48:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shaungroves.com/2007/06/are-we-bright-or-are-they-right/#comment-12397</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Halpinator&#8217;s comment is, I think, at least part of the issue.&#160; Andy Osenga&#8217;s Dance Away the City comes to mind.&#160; A sweet, lovely song, but the one line &#8220;pour a little wine&#8221; kills it as far as radio play goes because you&#8217;ve just offended a huge group of Christians totally opposed to any type of alcohol consumption.&#160; That one four letter word makes it difficult to even recommend the CD to certain people who have a particular conviction in that area.
&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;
As far as metaphors go, I flat out reject the idea that you can&#8217;t use metaphors in Christian songs.&#160; That just doesn&#8217;t make sense to me.&#160; Christian music IS somewhat limited in it&#8217;s subject matter.&#160; Country can sing about everything from Jesus taking the wheel to Lucille taking her love to town.&#160;
&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;
Maybe it&#8217;s not so much that we&#8217;re supposed to have &#8220;spiritual speak&#8221; in our songs as much as it ought to be normal to have &#8220;spiritual speak&#8221; in our every day lives.
&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;
Does any of this make sense?
&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Halpinator&#8217;s comment is, I think, at least part of the issue.&nbsp; Andy Osenga&#8217;s Dance Away the City comes to mind.&nbsp; A sweet, lovely song, but the one line &#8220;pour a little wine&#8221; kills it as far as radio play goes because you&#8217;ve just offended a huge group of Christians totally opposed to any type of alcohol consumption.&nbsp; That one four letter word makes it difficult to even recommend the CD to certain people who have a particular conviction in that area.
</p>
<p>
As far as metaphors go, I flat out reject the idea that you can&#8217;t use metaphors in Christian songs.&nbsp; That just doesn&#8217;t make sense to me.&nbsp; Christian music IS somewhat limited in it&#8217;s subject matter.&nbsp; Country can sing about everything from Jesus taking the wheel to Lucille taking her love to town.&nbsp;
</p>
<p>
Maybe it&#8217;s not so much that we&#8217;re supposed to have &#8220;spiritual speak&#8221; in our songs as much as it ought to be normal to have &#8220;spiritual speak&#8221; in our every day lives.
</p>
<p>
Does any of this make sense?</p>
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		<title>By: no longer nancy</title>
		<link>http://shaungroves.com/2007/06/are-we-bright-or-are-they-right/#comment-12396</link>
		<dc:creator>no longer nancy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jun 2007 15:44:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shaungroves.com/2007/06/are-we-bright-or-are-they-right/#comment-12396</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;could it be that is isn&#8217;t a deep answer at all?&#160; what if it is just what is in style at this moment in time?
&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>could it be that is isn&#8217;t a deep answer at all?&nbsp; what if it is just what is in style at this moment in time?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: jj</title>
		<link>http://shaungroves.com/2007/06/are-we-bright-or-are-they-right/#comment-12395</link>
		<dc:creator>jj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jun 2007 14:45:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shaungroves.com/2007/06/are-we-bright-or-are-they-right/#comment-12395</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;shaun, you are thought-provoking and very right.&#160; i hate the way that things work in the machine of the christian music industry.&#160; keep on doing what you&#8217;re doing...and sharing the beautiful gospel of jesus christ in fresh new ways.&#160; you were great on the faith cafe tv shoot, as well.
&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>shaun, you are thought-provoking and very right.&nbsp; i hate the way that things work in the machine of the christian music industry.&nbsp; keep on doing what you&#8217;re doing&#8230;and sharing the beautiful gospel of jesus christ in fresh new ways.&nbsp; you were great on the faith cafe tv shoot, as well.</p>
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		<title>By: Halpinator</title>
		<link>http://shaungroves.com/2007/06/are-we-bright-or-are-they-right/#comment-12394</link>
		<dc:creator>Halpinator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jun 2007 02:02:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shaungroves.com/2007/06/are-we-bright-or-are-they-right/#comment-12394</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I wonder if there is something else&#8230;  I wonder if the large portion of American Christianity that wants to take everything in the Bible &#8220;LITERALLY&#8221; adds to this problem.&#160; Clearly, not all language in the Bible is literal (Psalms as poetry, Revelation and Daniel as apocalyptic, Jesus&#8217; parables, and so on and so on), yet there seeems to be a fear of not taking all of these different styles of genre as absolutely, word for word literal truth.&#160; I wonder if this fear of interpreting things in the &#8220;liberal&#8221; sense as opposed to the &#8220;literal&#8221; sense manifests itself in the music industry.&#160; This would make sense because it seems to me that much of the Christian music industry (or at least the song lyrics) is very conservative in its scope.
&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;
I&#8217;m not certain.&#160; Just a thought.
&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder if there is something else&#8230;  I wonder if the large portion of American Christianity that wants to take everything in the Bible &#8220;LITERALLY&#8221; adds to this problem.&nbsp; Clearly, not all language in the Bible is literal (Psalms as poetry, Revelation and Daniel as apocalyptic, Jesus&#8217; parables, and so on and so on), yet there seeems to be a fear of not taking all of these different styles of genre as absolutely, word for word literal truth.&nbsp; I wonder if this fear of interpreting things in the &#8220;liberal&#8221; sense as opposed to the &#8220;literal&#8221; sense manifests itself in the music industry.&nbsp; This would make sense because it seems to me that much of the Christian music industry (or at least the song lyrics) is very conservative in its scope.
</p>
<p>
I&#8217;m not certain.&nbsp; Just a thought.</p>
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		<title>By: Sean w/o an H</title>
		<link>http://shaungroves.com/2007/06/are-we-bright-or-are-they-right/#comment-12393</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean w/o an H</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jun 2007 20:23:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shaungroves.com/2007/06/are-we-bright-or-are-they-right/#comment-12393</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Hmm&#8230; my only comment is this: is that why we get so excited about those spiritually metaphorical country songs? I mean, there&#8217;s a lot of bleedover there, right? (I don&#8217;t listen to a lot of country music, but that&#8217;s the feeling I get when I hear it/ hear it when my sis-in-law watches CMT). It&#8217;s an inside thing to spur business in both markets. Conspiracy, you hear me? CONSPIRACY!
&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;
Okay, seriously&#8230; the only legitimate thought I have on metaphors and (solely) radio performance is that, unless it&#8217;s a country song with repetitive metaphors,  (i.e. &#8220;He Was Walking Her Home&quot;/ &#8220;three Wooden Crosses&#8221; ), it&#8217;s hard to catch a metahpor in the middle of a song (i.e., if you&#8217;re dialing through stations).
&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;
The example my wife and I have been discussing: Derek Webb, specifically &#8220;The Ringing Bell&#8221;. It&#8217;s an amazing record, and honestly the catchiest and most commercial record he&#8217;s released, but the best songs wouldn&#8217;t work well on radio. My prime example: &#8220;Savior on Capital Hill&#8221;. It&#8217;s got some great satire and a great message, but heaven forbid a listener dials in during the bridge and SERIOUSLY buys into the &#8220;All of our problems gonna disappear when we can whisper right in that president&#8217;s ear&#8221; line. That&#8217;s the best example I can think of , but maybe that&#8217;s the problem with metaphor and Christian radio&#8230; it&#8217;s the type of metaphor, because they can easily get deep and require *gasp* multiple listens, and that doesn&#8217;t work well with Becky&#8230; especially when it&#8217;s followed by the requisite &#8220;Testify to Love&#8221;.
&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;
PS Sorry for the all caps&#8230; don&#8217;t know how to italicize in posts.
&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;
PPS Sorry if this has been brought up&#8230; i&#8217;m going to go plow through the rest of the comments now.
&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;
Sean
&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmm&#8230; my only comment is this: is that why we get so excited about those spiritually metaphorical country songs? I mean, there&#8217;s a lot of bleedover there, right? (I don&#8217;t listen to a lot of country music, but that&#8217;s the feeling I get when I hear it/ hear it when my sis-in-law watches CMT). It&#8217;s an inside thing to spur business in both markets. Conspiracy, you hear me? CONSPIRACY!
</p>
<p>
Okay, seriously&#8230; the only legitimate thought I have on metaphors and (solely) radio performance is that, unless it&#8217;s a country song with repetitive metaphors,  (i.e. &#8220;He Was Walking Her Home&#8221;/ &#8220;three Wooden Crosses&#8221; ), it&#8217;s hard to catch a metahpor in the middle of a song (i.e., if you&#8217;re dialing through stations).
</p>
<p>
The example my wife and I have been discussing: Derek Webb, specifically &#8220;The Ringing Bell&#8221;. It&#8217;s an amazing record, and honestly the catchiest and most commercial record he&#8217;s released, but the best songs wouldn&#8217;t work well on radio. My prime example: &#8220;Savior on Capital Hill&#8221;. It&#8217;s got some great satire and a great message, but heaven forbid a listener dials in during the bridge and SERIOUSLY buys into the &#8220;All of our problems gonna disappear when we can whisper right in that president&#8217;s ear&#8221; line. That&#8217;s the best example I can think of , but maybe that&#8217;s the problem with metaphor and Christian radio&#8230; it&#8217;s the type of metaphor, because they can easily get deep and require *gasp* multiple listens, and that doesn&#8217;t work well with Becky&#8230; especially when it&#8217;s followed by the requisite &#8220;Testify to Love&#8221;.
</p>
<p>
PS Sorry for the all caps&#8230; don&#8217;t know how to italicize in posts.
</p>
<p>
PPS Sorry if this has been brought up&#8230; i&#8217;m going to go plow through the rest of the comments now.
</p>
<p>
Sean</p>
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		<title>By: keith</title>
		<link>http://shaungroves.com/2007/06/are-we-bright-or-are-they-right/#comment-12392</link>
		<dc:creator>keith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jun 2007 18:57:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shaungroves.com/2007/06/are-we-bright-or-are-they-right/#comment-12392</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Back to the original question, &#8220;Why no metaphors?&#8221;
&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;
1. Maybe our high view of the language of the Bible as it has been translated into English drives our desire to hear words like &#8220;sin,&#8221; &#8220;grace,&#8221; &#8220;glory,&#8221; etc. in a song even though we may not hear it in most conversations.
&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;
2. Maybe the simpler language reinforces the &#8220;us vs. them&#8221; (sanctified-me vs. the world) mentality.&#160; If you&#8217;re in a battle of sorts or just caught up in the foreigner-in-a-strange-land mentality, it&#8217;s comforting to hear someone speak your own language.
&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;
Ah, now I have the &#8220;Life Is a Highway&#8221; chorus stuck in my head.
&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Back to the original question, &#8220;Why no metaphors?&#8221;
</p>
<p>
1. Maybe our high view of the language of the Bible as it has been translated into English drives our desire to hear words like &#8220;sin,&#8221; &#8220;grace,&#8221; &#8220;glory,&#8221; etc. in a song even though we may not hear it in most conversations.
</p>
<p>
2. Maybe the simpler language reinforces the &#8220;us vs. them&#8221; (sanctified-me vs. the world) mentality.&nbsp; If you&#8217;re in a battle of sorts or just caught up in the foreigner-in-a-strange-land mentality, it&#8217;s comforting to hear someone speak your own language.
</p>
<p>
Ah, now I have the &#8220;Life Is a Highway&#8221; chorus stuck in my head.</p>
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