Comments on: Coulda Saved The World http://shaungroves.com/2007/02/coulda-saved-the-world/ Thu, 09 Feb 2012 19:34:22 -0600 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v= By: Amanda http://shaungroves.com/2007/02/coulda-saved-the-world/#comment-13879 Amanda Fri, 09 Feb 2007 13:15:37 +0000 http://shaungroves.com/2007/02/coulda-saved-the-world/#comment-13879 <p>To me, my tithe to the church is a part of the way I worship, it’s a time of physically setting aside my first fruits to bring to God on Sunday...personally it’s a privledge. I think those figures speak to the many “christians” out there who are so wrapped up in themselves and in their “stuff” that they loose sight of their dependency upon God and don’t recognize the importance of tithing to the church. I don’t have much money...I live from paycheck to paycheck and it is a TREMENDOUS sacrifice to give my tithe to the church, but it is a rich blessing for me. <br /> I also think these figures are an average of two extremes...those who give VERY generously and those that don’t give at all. What these figures tell me is that there is certainly a larger percentage of those that don’t give...So my question not so much why aren’t people giving MORE, but why are so many people not giving at all? </p> To me, my tithe to the church is a part of the way I worship, it’s a time of physically setting aside my first fruits to bring to God on Sunday…personally it’s a privledge. I think those figures speak to the many “christians” out there who are so wrapped up in themselves and in their “stuff” that they loose sight of their dependency upon God and don’t recognize the importance of tithing to the church. I don’t have much money…I live from paycheck to paycheck and it is a TREMENDOUS sacrifice to give my tithe to the church, but it is a rich blessing for me.

I also think these figures are an average of two extremes…those who give VERY generously and those that don’t give at all. What these figures tell me is that there is certainly a larger percentage of those that don’t give…So my question not so much why aren’t people giving MORE, but why are so many people not giving at all?

]]> By: Alexis http://shaungroves.com/2007/02/coulda-saved-the-world/#comment-13878 Alexis Thu, 08 Feb 2007 17:55:29 +0000 http://shaungroves.com/2007/02/coulda-saved-the-world/#comment-13878 <p>I was thinking along the same lines as Brant… if churches got more money, they’d build bigger better churches. That is so sad to me, considering my life (dedicated to Compassion and a future in Missions) </p> I was thinking along the same lines as Brant… if churches got more money, they’d build bigger better churches. That is so sad to me, considering my life (dedicated to Compassion and a future in Missions)

]]> By: Shaun Groves http://shaungroves.com/2007/02/coulda-saved-the-world/#comment-13877 Shaun Groves Thu, 08 Feb 2007 00:30:30 +0000 http://shaungroves.com/2007/02/coulda-saved-the-world/#comment-13877 <p>You’re right, Brant.  I actually posted these questions because I didn’t think I’d have time to find the answers on my own today.  And because I think I’ve got some really well-connected readers I can count on when I’m too lazy to figure stuff out on my own.  Turns out I was wrong on the first account (I found empty tomb) and right on the second (you knew about them too.) </p> <p> Here’s the link, for anybody interested in learning more: <a href="http://www.emptytomb.org/research.html" rel="nofollow"><a href="http://www.emptytomb.org/research.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.emptytomb.org/research.html</a></a> </p> <p> I haven’t had time to read it, but at least I know where it lives. </p> You’re right, Brant.  I actually posted these questions because I didn’t think I’d have time to find the answers on my own today.  And because I think I’ve got some really well-connected readers I can count on when I’m too lazy to figure stuff out on my own.  Turns out I was wrong on the first account (I found empty tomb) and right on the second (you knew about them too.)

Here’s the link, for anybody interested in learning more: http://www.emptytomb.org/research.html

I haven’t had time to read it, but at least I know where it lives.

]]> By: Brant http://shaungroves.com/2007/02/coulda-saved-the-world/#comment-13876 Brant Thu, 08 Feb 2007 00:23:58 +0000 http://shaungroves.com/2007/02/coulda-saved-the-world/#comment-13876 <p>Shaun—Haven’t seen it, but confident they’re drawing on figures from John and Sylvia Ronsvalle of emptytomb, inc. </p> <p> They’re the top researchers on church giving patterns.  I happen to know them, because they’re from Champaign-Urbana, Illinois, and I volunteered a lot with empty tomb.  </p> <p> Their figures are rock-solid, and quoted in NYTimes and other mainstream outlets. </p> <p> Interesting q’s for me:  If American churches got quadruple the tithe money, how much difference do you think it would make?  Quadruple the converts?  Alleviation of hunger and disease in Africa?  Bigger, nicer building programs and more staffing? </p> Shaun—Haven’t seen it, but confident they’re drawing on figures from John and Sylvia Ronsvalle of emptytomb, inc.

They’re the top researchers on church giving patterns.  I happen to know them, because they’re from Champaign-Urbana, Illinois, and I volunteered a lot with empty tomb. 

Their figures are rock-solid, and quoted in NYTimes and other mainstream outlets.

Interesting q’s for me:  If American churches got quadruple the tithe money, how much difference do you think it would make?  Quadruple the converts?  Alleviation of hunger and disease in Africa?  Bigger, nicer building programs and more staffing?

]]> By: Cali Amy http://shaungroves.com/2007/02/coulda-saved-the-world/#comment-13875 Cali Amy Wed, 07 Feb 2007 20:52:12 +0000 http://shaungroves.com/2007/02/coulda-saved-the-world/#comment-13875 <p>Wow, that’s amazing.  And while a nice sentiment, how in the world would we organize such a thing?  And how many churches give such a large percentage of their budgets to humanitarian work?  And how come missions is put in with that? </p> Wow, that’s amazing.  And while a nice sentiment, how in the world would we organize such a thing?  And how many churches give such a large percentage of their budgets to humanitarian work?  And how come missions is put in with that?

]]> By: euphrony http://shaungroves.com/2007/02/coulda-saved-the-world/#comment-13874 euphrony Wed, 07 Feb 2007 13:07:21 +0000 http://shaungroves.com/2007/02/coulda-saved-the-world/#comment-13874 <p>As with all research that “speaks” for an entire population’s habits, I’m sure this one relies heavily on statistical sampling and extrapolation to come up with the given numbers.  Probably also had some reporting from the IRS to come up with this. </p> <p> What perhaps strikes me, personally, as the biggest omission in this brief quote is taking into account what Christians give <i>outside</i> their church.  I give a hearty portion to my local congregation, but not 10%.  I give significantly more to other areas - children’s homes and adoption agencies, shelters and food providers, disease research, the guy on the street, the family short on cash due to prolonged illness.  I give at my church to support our local meeting and the community and global outreach we work in.  I give to all these others to be personally involved (both monitarily and physically); otherwise I feel like I’m saying the equivalent of “I gave at the office.” </p> <p> Were this sort of giving from Christians taken into account, I think the numbers listed would likely be very different. </p> As with all research that “speaks” for an entire population’s habits, I’m sure this one relies heavily on statistical sampling and extrapolation to come up with the given numbers.  Probably also had some reporting from the IRS to come up with this.

What perhaps strikes me, personally, as the biggest omission in this brief quote is taking into account what Christians give outside their church.  I give a hearty portion to my local congregation, but not 10%.  I give significantly more to other areas – children’s homes and adoption agencies, shelters and food providers, disease research, the guy on the street, the family short on cash due to prolonged illness.  I give at my church to support our local meeting and the community and global outreach we work in.  I give to all these others to be personally involved (both monitarily and physically); otherwise I feel like I’m saying the equivalent of “I gave at the office.”

Were this sort of giving from Christians taken into account, I think the numbers listed would likely be very different.

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