Comments on: Dream Part 2 http://shaungroves.com/2007/01/dream-part-2/ Official site of Shaun Groves - musician, speaker, advocate for children living in poverty Mon, 21 May 2012 00:43:23 -0500 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v= By: Darin http://shaungroves.com/2007/01/dream-part-2/#comment-14441 Darin Wed, 10 Jan 2007 14:33:42 +0000 http://shaungroves.com/2007/01/dream-part-2/#comment-14441 <p>Great discussion. I have been blessed. A lot of good thoughts. </p> <p> My first thoughts were that your church did take care of the need. </p> <p> I do want to use this comment this Sunday if I may. </p> <p> “I don’t question anyone’s commitment anymore. I’m very aware instead that all of us, me included, have not been taught what form those commitments can and should take in our day to day lives.” </p> <p> “Maybe some people aren’t so committed but that is not my problem. My problem is being very committed but clueless about what to be committed to and what to do about it.” </p> <p> Thanks again all. </p> Great discussion. I have been blessed. A lot of good thoughts.

My first thoughts were that your church did take care of the need.

I do want to use this comment this Sunday if I may.

“I don’t question anyone’s commitment anymore. I’m very aware instead that all of us, me included, have not been taught what form those commitments can and should take in our day to day lives.”

“Maybe some people aren’t so committed but that is not my problem. My problem is being very committed but clueless about what to be committed to and what to do about it.”

Thanks again all.

]]> By: Shaun Groves http://shaungroves.com/2007/01/dream-part-2/#comment-14440 Shaun Groves Tue, 09 Jan 2007 00:18:49 +0000 http://shaungroves.com/2007/01/dream-part-2/#comment-14440 <p>I couldn’t think of doctors I knew were Christians and therefore <i>should</i> be more open to seeing these friends of mine who couldn’t pay.  So I called the church to see if they did. </p> <p> After the two ministers were unable to help, I called an assistant who help brainstorm doctors with me.  Together we came up with a few people we <i>thought</i> were doctors.  Lucky guessers. </p> <p> Good question. </p> I couldn’t think of doctors I knew were Christians and therefore should be more open to seeing these friends of mine who couldn’t pay.  So I called the church to see if they did.

After the two ministers were unable to help, I called an assistant who help brainstorm doctors with me.  Together we came up with a few people we thought were doctors.  Lucky guessers.

Good question.

]]> By: ann http://shaungroves.com/2007/01/dream-part-2/#comment-14439 ann Mon, 08 Jan 2007 22:56:26 +0000 http://shaungroves.com/2007/01/dream-part-2/#comment-14439 <p>Why did you call “the church” first, instead of going to the doctors first?  That sounds like something I would’ve done… </p> Why did you call “the church” first, instead of going to the doctors first?  That sounds like something I would’ve done…

]]> By: Todd http://shaungroves.com/2007/01/dream-part-2/#comment-14438 Todd Fri, 05 Jan 2007 21:24:10 +0000 http://shaungroves.com/2007/01/dream-part-2/#comment-14438 <p>Have you seen the movie “Millions”? This post reminded me of a scene from this excellent, if theologically inaccurate, film. One evening the main character has a vision of St. Peter. He beings talking with Peter about Jesus and miracles. </p> <p> Peter says something along the lines of Jesus’ miracles weren’t supernatural acts. He talks specifically about feeding the 5,000 and how the real miracle was that everybody shared the food they had, not that Jesus miraculously made more food. </p> <p> Now, I don’t agree with that. However, I believe that is the way that “miracles” can happen today. Not necessarily through some magical, supernatural intervention, but through single acts of kindness, sharing, grace, forgiveness, love. </p> <p> Shaun, I too long for the day when the Church becomes the bride it was intended to be. Until that day, let us press on with single acts, creating miracles and changing lives. </p> Have you seen the movie “Millions”? This post reminded me of a scene from this excellent, if theologically inaccurate, film. One evening the main character has a vision of St. Peter. He beings talking with Peter about Jesus and miracles.

Peter says something along the lines of Jesus’ miracles weren’t supernatural acts. He talks specifically about feeding the 5,000 and how the real miracle was that everybody shared the food they had, not that Jesus miraculously made more food.

Now, I don’t agree with that. However, I believe that is the way that “miracles” can happen today. Not necessarily through some magical, supernatural intervention, but through single acts of kindness, sharing, grace, forgiveness, love.

Shaun, I too long for the day when the Church becomes the bride it was intended to be. Until that day, let us press on with single acts, creating miracles and changing lives.

]]> By: Ben http://shaungroves.com/2007/01/dream-part-2/#comment-14437 Ben Fri, 05 Jan 2007 20:19:03 +0000 http://shaungroves.com/2007/01/dream-part-2/#comment-14437 <p>Inspiring and convicting thoughs.  Thanks. </p> Inspiring and convicting thoughs.  Thanks.

]]> By: Cali Amy http://shaungroves.com/2007/01/dream-part-2/#comment-14436 Cali Amy Fri, 05 Jan 2007 19:55:44 +0000 http://shaungroves.com/2007/01/dream-part-2/#comment-14436 <p>Emma, </p> <p> I appreciate your comment.  I feel like I’m starting to think more and more that way in my life.  Not only in regards to things like giving to the poor, but also in caring for the environment, etc.  <br /> I hope to become much more conscious of the way i spend money and the way I use both my time and energy. </p> Emma,

I appreciate your comment.  I feel like I’m starting to think more and more that way in my life.  Not only in regards to things like giving to the poor, but also in caring for the environment, etc. 

I hope to become much more conscious of the way i spend money and the way I use both my time and energy.

]]> By: jreid http://shaungroves.com/2007/01/dream-part-2/#comment-14435 jreid Fri, 05 Jan 2007 19:48:28 +0000 http://shaungroves.com/2007/01/dream-part-2/#comment-14435 <p>I think what Beth is saying is right on. What I think I am getting at, is another thing entirely...infact I did read her comments; and appreciate them - its more global. The Bible has over 2000 scriptures that mention the poor - right now in my life what they mean to me as an American in our western culture is very different that what they mean to someone who lives in the Sudan, Darfur, South Africa, Indonesia, and other areas like this. Because of our culture, our wealth, our proximity to health care, food, clean water, etc. We just have a different relationship to these scriptures than people who have to literally depend on the Lord for every drink of water and every bite of food...and for their lives. I think all of the church membership, the tithing, the church buildings, become less relevent when viewed in light of the Biblical mandate we all have for caring for the poor and meeting their every need. I guess I am personally convicted at how we (global) as a church have allowed 30,000 children to die per day from completely preventable causes - ???? This haunts me personally.....more since I’ve seen these things with my own eyes over the past several years on my trips to Africa. Shauns comments spurred me into thinking about yes, we have to meet the one right in front of us, but the battle is on so many fronts and its the Church of Jesus (the loving, caring, meeting the needs of the needy) Church that will only be able to get out ahead of these emmense needs. <br /> Thanks. <br /> J. </p> I think what Beth is saying is right on. What I think I am getting at, is another thing entirely…infact I did read her comments; and appreciate them – its more global. The Bible has over 2000 scriptures that mention the poor – right now in my life what they mean to me as an American in our western culture is very different that what they mean to someone who lives in the Sudan, Darfur, South Africa, Indonesia, and other areas like this. Because of our culture, our wealth, our proximity to health care, food, clean water, etc. We just have a different relationship to these scriptures than people who have to literally depend on the Lord for every drink of water and every bite of food…and for their lives. I think all of the church membership, the tithing, the church buildings, become less relevent when viewed in light of the Biblical mandate we all have for caring for the poor and meeting their every need. I guess I am personally convicted at how we (global) as a church have allowed 30,000 children to die per day from completely preventable causes – ???? This haunts me personally…..more since I’ve seen these things with my own eyes over the past several years on my trips to Africa. Shauns comments spurred me into thinking about yes, we have to meet the one right in front of us, but the battle is on so many fronts and its the Church of Jesus (the loving, caring, meeting the needs of the needy) Church that will only be able to get out ahead of these emmense needs.

Thanks.

J.

]]> By: emma http://shaungroves.com/2007/01/dream-part-2/#comment-14434 emma Fri, 05 Jan 2007 17:37:05 +0000 http://shaungroves.com/2007/01/dream-part-2/#comment-14434 <p>I think we’ve missed Beth’s first comment to a certain degree: </p> <p> “I struggle a lot to give up my comforts in order to really care for and serve others sacrificially.” </p> <p> I really struggle with this too, never more so than now. I question how ethical/honest/Christian it is of me to spend more money on me than I need to. Even something as simple as buying new clothes… Here’s how I picture it right now: <br /> I have a gift voucher for a shop I love, for £15. I can’t buy anything there for £15, a sweater is like £50. How do I justify spending £50 on a jumper I ‘like’ when I can get one down the street for £15 that I maybe don’t like quite as much, but does the job equally well? Dorothy Day once said, “If you have two coats, one of them belongs to the poor.” </p> <p> I know that maybe makes me look radical, or whatever else you think, but I really question this… if I buy the cheaper one I can give more away… and isn’t that the point of the new community, what church is supposed to be like? “They sold their possesions and gave so that no one was in need.” </p> <p> Maybe I’m just a little crazy, but I really believe in this. Putting it into practice is SO SO much harder. </p> I think we’ve missed Beth’s first comment to a certain degree:

“I struggle a lot to give up my comforts in order to really care for and serve others sacrificially.”

I really struggle with this too, never more so than now. I question how ethical/honest/Christian it is of me to spend more money on me than I need to. Even something as simple as buying new clothes… Here’s how I picture it right now:

I have a gift voucher for a shop I love, for £15. I can’t buy anything there for £15, a sweater is like £50. How do I justify spending £50 on a jumper I ‘like’ when I can get one down the street for £15 that I maybe don’t like quite as much, but does the job equally well? Dorothy Day once said, “If you have two coats, one of them belongs to the poor.”

I know that maybe makes me look radical, or whatever else you think, but I really question this… if I buy the cheaper one I can give more away… and isn’t that the point of the new community, what church is supposed to be like? “They sold their possesions and gave so that no one was in need.”

Maybe I’m just a little crazy, but I really believe in this. Putting it into practice is SO SO much harder.

]]> By: Julie Reid http://shaungroves.com/2007/01/dream-part-2/#comment-14433 Julie Reid Fri, 05 Jan 2007 06:22:55 +0000 http://shaungroves.com/2007/01/dream-part-2/#comment-14433 <p>Great thread. I often wonder what would happen to the “church” if we really gave sacrificially as a community rather than asked for people to simply tithe. Isn’t that really what God is after anyway? I have been struggling for the past month with the fact that 30,000 children die everyday from completely preventable diseases. The number one killer of children is actually diarrhea.... That statistic is with me everyday, and its one of those things that I just can’t shake and probably shouldn’t. I can’t seem to lay my head down at night as a member of this body and be disconnected from the suffering of the world anymore - and just be okay with that. I think its like the man you helped Shaun, we are all connected; I am just starting to understand that when that man is sick - I am sick; when these children are dying we are all dying - its not someone elses problem, its all of our problem. So yes, your church does need to take care of him, and my church, and all of our churches. Well enough of this rant, I just really was blessed by your opening comments. Although in California we don’t have church membership. I think they might look at that like a cell phone contract! What ever happenned to covenant relationship? <br /> Blessings. <br /> Jreid </p> Great thread. I often wonder what would happen to the “church” if we really gave sacrificially as a community rather than asked for people to simply tithe. Isn’t that really what God is after anyway? I have been struggling for the past month with the fact that 30,000 children die everyday from completely preventable diseases. The number one killer of children is actually diarrhea…. That statistic is with me everyday, and its one of those things that I just can’t shake and probably shouldn’t. I can’t seem to lay my head down at night as a member of this body and be disconnected from the suffering of the world anymore – and just be okay with that. I think its like the man you helped Shaun, we are all connected; I am just starting to understand that when that man is sick – I am sick; when these children are dying we are all dying – its not someone elses problem, its all of our problem. So yes, your church does need to take care of him, and my church, and all of our churches. Well enough of this rant, I just really was blessed by your opening comments. Although in California we don’t have church membership. I think they might look at that like a cell phone contract! What ever happenned to covenant relationship?

Blessings.

Jreid

]]> By: Gary Davis http://shaungroves.com/2007/01/dream-part-2/#comment-14432 Gary Davis Fri, 05 Jan 2007 06:12:19 +0000 http://shaungroves.com/2007/01/dream-part-2/#comment-14432 <p>I dream about things like that too.  Then I speak up about those dreams. <br /> Then I get fired or have to quit because no one will listen. <br /> Then I start all over again. </p> I dream about things like that too.  Then I speak up about those dreams.

Then I get fired or have to quit because no one will listen.

Then I start all over again.

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